Simmons is a freak, but for a team with so many gaping holes elsewhere on the defense it's hard to say that he's the best pick for the Lions. He'd be great at holding those ten yard edge runs to seven yards though.

Not sure why you guys are talking about these guys. Our pick is Easy

If young is there. Pick young

If tua is there. Pick Tua

You gotta take BPA at pick 3. Simmons is BPA figuring we wont take a QB. As I said watch when we get closer to the draft consensus will be hes top 5 as some places already have him that high. Simmons is a guy who gives your defense an identity.

Brown is good but hes not a freak of nature type DT like Suh was. I like Okudah hes a shutdown corner but Simmons is a different type of prospect.

We have plenty of cap space to fix other holes.


I'm not against taking Tua. I just dont think our coach FO have those kind of balls. Obv if Young is available I take him. I'm also fine trading down.

Another thing looking at Brown and Okudahs combine results just not that impressive.

Okudah ran a 4.48 and 4.50. 40 isnt everything, Sherman ran like a 4.58(he also went late)but if were talking taking a CB this high in a good draft he better have everything. Ward was a 4.32 and Peterson 4.34 for example. I'd be fine with him if we trade down but not if we stay at 3.

Brown did not look good at the combine either. 15th best relative athletic score amongst DT's. Browns got size but hes not going to be a good pass rusher. So basically taking a run-stopping non-atheltic freak DT at 3 in a good draft. I think after this combine Brown moves down the boards as well. Again hes a nice trade down candidate.

I thin I sort of am. To me the possibilities that Tua is both the prospect you go all in on and available at #3 are mutually exclusive. If he's that great, then he should go 1 or 2 in this draft, either the skins take him or a QB needy team dumps everything they have to get him.

The only way the Lions should take him is if they know something about Stafford's injury that's more concerning than publicly revealed Otherwise you've still got 5 or so years of Stafford, and there's no reason to reset at this point. There's plenty of value to be had at QB later in the draft. I agree you want to go BPA in the draft, but QB's are unique in that they are incredibly important to a franchise, but are especially challenging to scout and draft. Here are all the top 5 QB's drafted after Stafford:

Mark Sanches
Sam Bradford
Cam Newton
Andrew Luck
RG3
Blake Bortles
Jameis Winston
Marcus Mariota
Jared Goff
Carson Wentz
Mitch Trubisky
Baker Mayfield
Sam Darnold
Kyler Murray

I'll leave it up to you to decide which of those QB's you would have rather had over Stafford, but if it's anywhere near half of them, I'm not sure what to say.

I can definitely warm up to the idea of Isaiah Simmons, but am a bit weary of taking a combine hero at LB. Instincts, tackling, and discipline are all important as a LB. Maybe it's just the Jarrad Davis recency bias, but he plays faster/stronger than he measured, but doesn't know what to do with it on the field, and has become a huge liability. At most positions, I'm mostly concerned with their combine numbers being inside the "acceptable" box. That's why I'm not concerned with Okudah's 4.50. It's plenty fast for a good CB, and he has the college tape to prove he can hang with the best. It's when you get a Teez Tabor 4.77 that should be your red flag. Edge rusher is maybe one position where an elite combine performance might shoot a guy up my draft board, but most positions the measurements aren't a huge needle mover for me. Simmons gets a bump for sure, but I'm not sure if he's top 5. I could be wrong, I didn't watch him play enough in college.

I've been thinking about various draft day scenarios in order of likelihood. Here's my guess as to the relative order of possibilities:

1. Burrow & Young go 1 & 2, Lions trade back.
2. Burrow & Young go 1 & 2, Lions draft their guy (not Tua) at 3.
3. Burrow & Tua go 1 & 2, Lions land Chase Young.
4. Burrow & Young go 1 & 2, Lions draft Tua.

1 & 2 might have about the same likelihood. Something in my gut tells me they are going to lock on to Okudah and stand pat. He seems like the embodiment of what Quinn and Patricia want. Low floor guy. Good character. His strength is press man coverage. It's a position of need that they seem to value more over DL. But I also don't see them passing up extra 1st round picks if they get that offer.

I just don't see them drafting Tua. I sill think if Tua is really viewed as a must draft top tier QB prospect, teams really need to try and jump to #2. I don't think you can rule out the Skins pulling an Arizona and just nabbing him if that's the case. Haskins doesn't look good.

quite surprised to see you say this then bring up this

okudahs RAS puts him at almost the 96th percentile in terms of relative athletic score for the CB position. in other words, its extremely impressive. add in the fact that his overall temperament and football IQ is considered off the charts as well, hes a top 5 lock in this draft.

To be fair Okudahs RAS was all based on size, 40, broad, and vert. He skipped the agility drills because he hurt his neck. It's unlikely to matter though. He is a solid CB pick, and it would not surprise me in the slightest if the Lions lock on and nab him at 3 since a trade to 5 means he likely goes to NYG at 4.

I was talking about the RAS for D.Brown.

For Okudah I was talking about speed. Speed to me is important moreso for a DB then any position. If I'm taking a corner at pick 3 which is super rare I want him to be lighting fast like other corners we've seen go that high. Not saying hes not a good prospect he was the first prospect I thought I'd want this season just I rather trade down and get him.

A healthy Tua would possibly go #1 in this draft. People have been talking about him as a the next great QB prospect for years now. You dont get a chance at a QB like him very often. Have you guys been seeing some rumors pop up that Stafford wants out? They've been denied by Staffords wife and Quinn but theirs still some rumors out there.I dont know if their true in anyway but if he wants gone you gotta move on. We can draft Tua and let him sit for a year then move Stafford in the offseason. Stafford is going to have value. So not only would we be drafting the QB of the future we get draft picks for Stafford.

As far as the skins will take him if hes a sure thing, you really cant count on the Skins to do the right thing. Also Chase Young is a Washington guy and a tantalizing prospect. The Skins might see how the 49ers turned it around ine one season with a DE making a huge difference and decide to stand pat.

Keep in mind Simmons isnt just a combine warrior. He produced and he produced in the big games for Clemson. He was already 4th on some draft boards I seen pre combine.

Were in such a good position this season. Quinn better not mess this up. We either need to draft Tua,trade down, or take a big impact defender. If he stays put and drafts Oline or something time to start the Fire Quinn marches downtown.

talking further about this, Kent, the guy who developed it has wrote a number of times on twitter about how specific positions have certain drills with high correlation to NFL success. IIRC for the CB position it was 3 cone for the agility and vert/broad jump for explosion. 40 time wasn't that correlated as those guys rarely run straight line speed.

if you guys really want a grasp on what this organization (Quinn) looks for in positional athletic numbers look further at Eric's work. basically most every prospect Quinn has drafted or sought out in free agency has qualifying athletic traits for their specific positions. this is just a starting point.

https://lionswire.usatoday.com/2017/...ed-benchmarks/

Looking through the top nfl cornerbacks through history 40's times looks to me like the majority are right about 4.4 or in alot of top 5 corners 4.3s. I'm sure they kill the other test as well though. Some exceptions but most of the exceptions were later draft picks outside of Joe Haden.

Speed might not be important to Quinn in a corner. "Detroit Lions general manager Bob Quinn said he watched more film on second-round pick Teez Tabor than any other prospect he's ever scouted. " Quinn values "game speed" and he seen Tabor as fast in pads. Tabor ran a 4.62. We also like big slow linebackers. Thats why we reached for Jahlani Tavai last season.

https://www.mlive.com/lions/2017/05/...tabor_his.html

I'm not saying Okudah is a bad prospect or anything.He was the guy I wanted a couple months ago. I've just changed my mind now I want Tua,trade down, or Simmons.If we stay put and take Okudah im not gonna be tilted or anything. Hes obv the safe play, figuring Simmons is going to take a brain to use properly, and Tua is a risk. Its going to be pretty hard for the lions to mess up this years with a great pick in a stacked draft.

I have to agree with all of this. my problem with picking Simmons is that I would imagine they'll play him at LB in base defense (moving him to the hang safety on 3rd downs), and considering they don't really apply blitz pressure via LB, a top 5 pick on a coverage LB seems like terrible value.

If we used Simmons the right way hes an unstoppable swiss army knife. All those good TE's that are normally a mismatch for you we can stop them. All the teams putting their best WR in the slot, or that have a great slot WR, we can stop them. RB in the flat Simmons can cover him too. He also has the ability to rush the passer. You can do so many things with this guy.

Every offense would have to worry about what Simmons is doing. He would be our defensive identity. That star we havent had since Suh left. Just not many dudes out there that exist with his size/speed skillset.

The question is can our coach use a guy like this to his maximum skill set. If he cant then your just better off grabbing Okudah and having him shut down the best WR on the other team. Even Matt cant mess that up.

What I'm hoping we do figuring Burrow is not a option would be:

1.Young not likely
2.Trade down-depending on the package I might prefer this to Young even. This draft is awesome so many good players.
3. Simmons
4. Tua
5.Okudah

I'm fine with any of these. Like I said its going to be hard for us to mess this up.

yeah I absolutely agree with you about Simmons the player, I'm just very skeptical of his use in our scheme.

mine would be

1. young
2. trade with MIA to 5 and take whoever is left of okudah/simmons
3. tua @ 3 as an asset
4. okudah @ 3
5. simmons @ 3

their preference is assuredly different based on Martha saying its playoffs or bust for this group.

I could see a significant trade down and then target e.g. Wirfs, CJ Henderson, Epenesa, Kinlaw, guys that in part because of scheme fit the Lions could have a little higher than the consensus. They would then walk away feeling they got a top 10 talent outside of the top 10, plus the trade assets for moving down.

Free agency starts today. By about 2 we should have an idea if they have landed any big names. Hopefully they can at least sign someone who can compete as starter at DT, CB, and maybe OG and OT. Otherwise they go into the draft needing to draft those positions, which is never where you want to be.

Overpaying for scrubs, the Lion way.

Collins signs last season with the Pats 1year 1.05mill 250k guaranteed. He comes to us the next season at 31 years old we sign him for 3 for 30mill 18mill guaranteed.

Grab up the Eagles backup lineman for 5 year 50mill.

Next up draft D.Brown at 3. Meanwhile Simmons will become a superstar.

Same old Lions!

meh, while I'm certainly not in love with either signing I think they're likely fine. obv can't stump for the PHI tackle much but Collins has played really well in this system throughout his career and is assuredly an upgrade. plus, when you factor in the structure of the deals, it's likely there's still close to 40 mil in cap room left which still leaves a lot of ammo.

I'm not exactly sold on who they're filling the holes with, but they are trying to be reasonable financially in doing so. a WHOLE lot more is needed, though.

They are filling the holes by overpaying in FA with holes they failed to address by getting good value in recent drafts. You can almost trace some of these recent contracts to bad draft picks.

Jamie Collins = Jarrad Davis
Justin Coleman = Teez Tabor
Halapoulivaati Vaitai = Tyrell Crosby/inability to address backup tackle.

If they don't whiff on those picks, that's 25mil a year they don't need to plug a hole this year, and can instead go out and spend on a top tier FA. All teams struggle with this to some extent. I don't entirely fault Quinn for the Rick Wagner fall off and struggles at finding an OT starter in rounds 5+. It's when you whiff in rounds 1 & 2 like Davis and Teez that you end up feeling the ripple effects for 5+ years like they are now, and it's tough to improve when you are dealing with that.

Man I was just listening to Sunday's Pride of Detroit podcast and they were talking about wanting Jamie Collins for 2 years 8 million. lol @ 3 years 30 million. I'm somehwat hoping that these deal getting announced by 3rd parties have their numbers wrong because this contract seems insane, even if it's performance heavy.

The strategy of going after guys the Pats dont want to pay because they fit our system and we want to do things the "Patriot way" is never going to work. The Pats do so well because they've got Bill B the mastermind which allows them to find big production for cheap. They grab guys like Kyle V and Collins for nothing, then let them go when its time to pay them and replace that production with cheap free agents and late picks, rinse and repeat.

Have they signed Tom Brady yet?