Being a Lions fan is like getting aids every week

The **** outta here with this. He is a notch behind the best. He may not be a hall of famer but he is good enough to win a super bowl. His whole career theyve had no run game and usually a mediocre defense.

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Stafford is clearly top 10 itl closer to top 5 then 10. Also he's younger then most the top ones.

A couple things about Stafford:

-- Lions have never really had a decent running game during his tenure.
-- Megatron retirement this year had to hurt.
-- Besides Megatron who is the last good WR the Lions have drafted?
-- Lots of different OCs
-- Oline turmoil

The problem is killing your cap with a good but not great QB really hurts your organization.

If Stafford was In his first 3 years contract he'd be immensely valuable, but at this point you are forced to pay him.

I'm not even saying there's a viable other option it's just the NFL.

You really can win the Super Bowl (98% of the time, 2% anyone can get lucky etc) in two ways:

1) Luckbox a HOF QB (see packers)
2) Luckbox a good rookie QB while you have an elite team surrounding him so you can still afford the contracts of everyone before you have to pay the QB

Russell Wilson is a good example, the Seahawks will be in decline for the next few years imo because they had to overpay for Russell (and im not insinuating the Seahawks had a choice it's just the facts).

Paying good qbs not dissimilar amounts to great qbs is just a giant problem for teams with the good QB.

Because the owner knows they can be a playoff contender every year and the fan base will trick themselves into believing "maybe next year when so and so comes back." But in reality it's all a mirage and you're just stuck in good but not great land.

Which is even better than rebuilding all the time to maybe get a shot at a super bowl imo so I'm not suggesting anything changes either, just that it kind of sucks if you believe that. But then again we are all humans and will lie to ourselves so I guess it's ok.

And as soon as I say this he gets 20 carries the next game for 69 yards for 3.5 yards per carry. Probably his ceiling actually. Did OK, had some good runs where he ate up 5+ yards, but still had far too many no gains. Not exactly what you want from your starting running back. He lacks the acceleration and power to turn some of those broken runs into 1 or 2 yard gains, and lacks the top speed to get the deep runs you'd hope for. I'd say after 2 seasons we know where Zenner is. He's a good backup that can give your starter a breather. He's dangerous enough and can be effective all over the field, but at 20 touches per game you won't get what you want out of a starter.

The one thing that sucks about being a playoff team is that if Quinn wants to can Caldwell this year, other teams now have a 1 week head start on trying to lock up the best candidates. I'm still kind of meh on Caldwell. I don't hate the guy, but I won't lose sleep if he's fired. I see him as a good leader with a poor football IQ.

As for this weeks game, I think we got a decent draw. I haven't watched much of Seattle this year, but they got spanked by GB a few weeks back, and we went toe to toe with them last year, losing by about 1 foot at the end. I'm not sure if their O-Line is still awful, but Ansah and Taylor were chasing Wilson all over the backfield. They're definitely capable of laying a giant turd. I'm a bit surprised to see the line at SEA -8. I'd take those points. I'm hoping it's at least a close game to shake some of the talk that they don't belong in the playoffs, as well as showing that they are really only a few pieces away from being a contender.

Finally, I think it's pretty clear Stafford's finger is bothering him, especially on deep balls. There were some wide open misses that could have been game changers Tate being open by about 10 yards before Stafford sailing one over his head is an image I can't quite shake. I'm not sure when the splint comes off (he said it will be off by the Super Bowl) but at this point the sooner the better.

Good post, I agree with all 4 points above. To add a few thoughts:

Re: Caldwell - I was ****ing pissed on Sunday, and wanted him gone. Cooling off, and then reading this ESPN write-up, I'm leaning towards "it would be unreasonable to fire him, even though he doesn't pass the eye test." The guy is 27-21 with playoffs in 2 of 3 seasons. That has to be good enough for this franchise. Plus if you believe in Quinn, then he's only had 1 draft to start improving the talent on the team. Given results so far one could reasonably argue that Caldwell deserves time to see if he can take an improved roster and make a true SB contender.

OTOH, you hit it: Caldwell is at best a "meh". We ran hotter than the sun to make the playoffs this year, and we have 0 SB equity. Caldwell was seen as a shaky Xs/Os coach when he was hired and he hasn't done anything to change that perception (I remembered a post I made itt when he was hired, see here - Indy fans were legion in calling out his coaching **** ups). Good leader but poor football IQ sums it up perfectly.

Lastly, the two hot coaching candidates this year are the NE OC and DC - presumably Quinn would have at least a decent shot in landing them (or at least better than any other DET GM). McDaniels in particular I remember reading learned a lot of lessons in his first failed coaching try, still has a great football mind, and people think is poised to really have a great shot with his next gig. So if you keep Caldwell, you are passing on a better-than-normal chance to land a top HC candidate specifically in 2017. (Of course, the last time we went through this Wisenhunt was the hot prospect... who was promptly terrible with Tennessee, and then Tennessee has shown dramatic improvement starting exactly when Wisenhunt was fired. So who the hell knows.)

Re: Seattle - Agree, this is absolutely the best possible draw out of the non-DAL conf winners. I live in Seattle and the Seahawks haven't been right for at least a month. Very little would surprise me, between us losing by 14+ to us winning a 17-16 type game where we get a punt return TD or something. I guess I would be surprised if we blow them out unless it was super fluky 2+ DST scores or something. A bet on DET +8, and another (maybe half-unit) on the money line +330 wouldn't be too bad imo.

Edit: Of course, if we do win then it's 100% impossible to fire Caldwell. We would be (rightfully) be 2 TD underdogs in DAL. (The only path the SB was winning the division & a home playoff game, hoping Matt Ryan falls apart in January and winning in ATL, then having NYG or GB win in DAL and having to go to DET.)

Re: Stafford - Yeah, ESPN posted his stats this weekend since the injury compared to before. He was 22/7 TD/INT and 67% completion before the injury. Since it's 2/3 and 60%, or something like that. He's been saying the right stuff/not making an excuse, but clearly his production has dropped off, and it doesn't seem possible that torn ligaments in your throwing hand can't have a negative effect.

I don't care if he is 27-21.

He started last year 1-7 and won 6 meaningless games that actually hurt the organization

This year. 9-4. Loss 4 straight

Let's say we are in a world where our last 3 games are our first three games. We start 0-3. Add in the loss to Minnesota (the game we had 1% equity with 20 seconds left)

We would have been like 6-7 or 5-8 with 3 games to go and eliminated from the playoffs

Or even us this year. And make the Minnesota win a loss. He's 8-5 and crash and burns to 8-8

Or even this year, and Washington wins and we miss the playoffs?

He's getting fired in all those situations

Just because Stafford went into God mode doesn't mean he should keep his job.


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I trust that Quinn will make the right decision. I agree that if he could guarantee we get McDaniels or another good candidate, he should do it in an instant. But if he can't guarantee that and we are gonna get stuck with Rex Ryan or Jeff Fisher or some bull**** then I'm fine keeping Caldwell. Caldwell has obviously run over expectation this year but I'd argue that the majority of coaches in this league would struggle to win games with this roster as well. Give Quinn a couple more drafts and let him look for an opportunity to hire a significant upgrade over Caldwell rather than just canning him now just because.

Having a really good but not great qb is fine with me. Giants won 2 superbowls with Eli Manning. We can win one with Stafford whos better. The chiefs are a superbowl contender this year with A.Smith. Put Stafford on a team like the Texans and they become superbowl contenders. Having Rodgers/Brady/Brees(Stafford younger then all of these guys) is great but most teams dont have that option and its not like you see Brees a true elite qb doing anything outside the reg season lately either.

Before we had Stafford are best qb in the history of the franchise was Scott Mitchell. Stafford is only 28. Qbs dont decline with age like other positions. Stafford hasnt even hit his ceiling and will keep improving. In a world where qbs like Brock Osweiler get 18mill a year you would have to be stupid to want to lose a qb in his prime like Stafford.

As far as Caldwell hes overachieved. Hes not the worst coach hes not the best coach.I can understand why they would keep him but personally if Quinn gets a heads up from Mcdaniels that he wants to come we got to grab him and take a chance that he can take Stafford and this team to another level. Obv if we somehow upset the Hawks you cant fire him.

On Lions vs. Seahawks. Packers got 5 INTs in their game with the Seahawks and picked on Shead in the passing game. Lane got beat on a long TD pass. Seahawks are hurting without Earl Thomas.

Michael Bennett calling Zach Zenner the best white RB in the league is going to be a strong contender for the best backhanded compliment of 2017.

Is there another white RB in 2016 apart from Zenner and Rex Burkhead?

Danny Woodhead is pretty good.

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Detroit +8 is confirmed FREE MONEY, right?

100 dimes lock of the century, yes.

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Lions have never been free money my whole life.

True story, I bet Indy -30 with a friend for the 04 Thanksgiving game and hit. Betting against the Lions was free money back then.

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Was at this game. Lololol that era

When you put this season next to the era when everyone hoped Joey Harrington was the savior of the franchise things dont seem that bad. How that guy was ever a number 3 pick when everyone could see his accuracy issues all through college is beyond me.

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what price did he give you?

Whats worse then the Harrington pick was the lions drafting 3 bust first round WRs all in a row all early picks as well.

Rogers,Roy,Mike. Even taking Calvin i was like WTF another WR. Only the lions front office.

Unfortunately it was still an even money bet ($5). It was at work, and the guy was trying to tell me how the Lions always show up on Thanksgiving and not to bet against them. I told him they sucked and Manning owned them. He proposed betting ATS, taking the Lions, and I stupidly said something like "I can do better than 14 points, I'll give you 30!" Predicting that blowout on the record was worth the horrible EV of the bet.

It's not just the first round bust WR's that were bad in those drafts either, just about every Millen draft, at all levels, was pure AIDS. There were a few diamonds in the rough, but I think I can count all the players Millen drafted that had what could be considered "successful" careers on one hand. What the hell, let's try it.

Calvin
Cliff Avril
Raiola
Backus
Shaun Rogers

Yeah, that seems about it. Everyone else couldn't hold down a starting job and washed out of the league before turning 30. I guess you could give honorable mentions to Roy Williams who put up career #3 receiver type numbers, but never lived up to his draft point, and Danny O, who has a built himself a niche as a veteran backup QB.

At least now we appear to have a GM with an eye for talent and are getting acceptable production from all of our draft picks.

I disagree.

Getting AIDS you were probably banging or doing heroin, so there is some joy there

Or getting prison raped. Youre serving a life sentence stuck in a cage with a guy named Tyrone who brutally sodomizes you every week. Once in a while he does something nice like beating up guys who try to pick on you, but just when you think he is done hurting you he sticks it in one more time.

Yeah, sorta like watching the Lions. I have stopped watching sober though, it helps.

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