I mean what are you trying to argue here? You've said and shown several times that you're not really a fan, you just call yourself one. You don't really care, aren't "emotionally invested", you don't watch games, you've actually rooted against them?!?! Yet, in the next breath you're trying to talk down to people who are loyal fans to the team and claim to be a "better" fan?

You're just completely pathetic. I don't even know what else can be said about you that you haven't already said about yourself.

EDIT: Please, just find somewhere else to be pathetic. If you're from Wisconsin you should probably jump on the Green Bay bandwagon (if you haven't already, and if there were a way to know for sure I'd bet you've worn another NFL team's colors at some point). It's an embarrassment to have you even pretending to be a Dallas fan.

again, i don't think the choice i make of which baseball team to follow makes jerry jones a better or lesser gm. my post wasn't: am i a good fan? it was, how can you support this futility?

that said, there are a couple of points you're leaving out. a) the rangers were going to make the playoffs with or without cliff lee. in fact, the rangers were set to be very, very good for the next 5-7 years with or without cliff lee. i just thought they'd be better over that 5-7 year window with one of baseball america's top 10 prospects, which leads to point b) justin smoak hit 15 hrs in 123 games last year, which translates to 20 hrs over a full season. so a guy with a .323 obp and 20 homer potential is an epic failure? see alex gordon. not to mention smoak was on a tear for the first 2 and a half months of last season hitting 12 hrs, then he got banged up missed some time and struggled from there on out. the book on justin smoak isn't shut. c) the brewers were not going to be good for the next 5-7 years. they were losing prince fielder after the '11 season and they made a move to make the most of this past season. i personally would have preferred they moved fielder for some prospects, but they choose to go this route. also, the concept of a protest vote seems to have been lost on everyone in se when it comes to this topic. that's what my brewers fandom started out as. now, i enjoy watching their games, and i get excited when they do things well. i chose to root for a team that isn't traditionally a powerhouse and that would likely struggle after they lost prince fielder. i don't see why i should be ridiculed for that, but hey whatever.

you know that's another point here. if you don't enjoy something then why do it? i'm sorry i don't enjoy watching cowboys' games when i know what the outcome will be in july. that's a time investment, every week 3 long hours out of your sunday, a day that is suppose to be relaxing by the way. i'd rather listen to music, go to the gym, watch a movie. i don't think i have to watch futility to earn the label of a "good fan". i mean, what does that get you? i can't even swipe my cowboys' fan card at walmart for a 0.01% discount. and do you honestly think the players care one iota of what care about the cowboys?

bottom line, if it makes you happy then go for it. but i don't think this has anything to do with who is or isn't a good fan. i may very well be a bad fan. i guess i just put myself and my time first and the team can be damned because that's what these millionaires are doing to you. they're giving you the finger. that's gotta be a huge part of it actually. sports blows BIG TIME compared to the way it was 20 years ago. plus, i've grown up and sports doesn't hold the childlike appeal that it once did for me. i'm not willing to blindly align myself with any team just because they wear a certain uniform or call themselves by a certain name.

so the overwhelming logic in this thread is: thundercat32 is an epically horrible fan; therefore, jerry jones is an ok gm/owner, and the cowboys are doing okay?

come'on both of you guys are way smarter than that. please tell me what one thing has to do with the other.

Your point is "Jerry Jones is so epicly bad, he's the worst GM ever, he throws up the middle finger at you every year, why are you fans??"

Our point is "....not really. Our team has been pretty good recently, we've had some really good teams, and we don't think Jerry is all that bad, therefore there is no reason to stop being fans. More so, even if he isn't the best, you don't just abandon your team".

Your reply is "I don't even enjoy watching the games, 3 hours is a waste of time. I know how things will go in July. **** millionaires, **** Jerry. But I'm a good fan!"

Our reply is "lol wat".

You're the only person trying to connect the two though. You being a horrible fan has nothing whatsoever to do with Jerry Jones as far as I can tell. Quality of ownership and management might affect results but it doesn't affect my being a fan.

that i've been beaten into submission by underachieving and stupidity for the last 15 years. it just sickens me. i've never really said anything about it, but this year i tried to follow the cowboys and cultivate some interest in them, and i just can't. jerry jones makes it impossible for me to follow this team. i have zero hope that they will ever do anything more than go 9-7 and be first round fodder for whoever, and that is in a so-called good year. the more likely 5-11's are just around the corner. i don't know why i gotta sit through another round of that to be a good fan.

if more fans were like me and stopped caring then jerry jones might actually have to do something to make cowboys a serious contender in order to make the business end of the cowboys continue to go.

And then you'd be right back on the wagon, right?

huh? i never brought up what baseball team i root for. my question was, how are you guys able to root for the cowboys inspite of jerry jones? and i wasn't asking it in a condescending way actually. i was just really curious if it's starting to bother you or if you have other thoughts about it. i think of both you and zbt as really good fans, but maybe too good. you might be too loyal to the one thing you love, and you might be a small part of the problem. i was just asking for you to do a little introspection on your own rooting interests. instead, i got "oh yeah, but you're an idiot you switched baseball teams." which is fine, i'm not offended by it or anything; it just still doesn't address the original question i asked.

No, but it establishes a pattern that now stretches to three different sports/teams where you get fed up with what you call a lack of success. When in reality, it doesn't even exist. The Mavs were in the middle of winning 50 games a year for 12 years in a row, the Rangers were on the way to the WS, the Cowboys just missed the playoffs by one game.

You act as if the Cowboys are 3-13 every year drafting Heyward Bay with the 9th pick every year, and that's the problem. You don't even know enough about the Cowboys to make the claims you are trying to make.

Want proof that Jerry isn't making every decision? I'll give you two. Sean Lee and Bruce Carter. Two second round picks, past two years, both of which were not going to be able to play year 1. COMPLETELY non Jerry like decision. How about Tyron Smith in the first? COMPLETELY non Jerry like decision. LOTS of people make decisions here. Just because you can come up with a scapegoat to make you feel better about not liking the Cowboys that much doesn't mean it's true.

bro, i understand the ticket is not your cup of tea, but have you ever listened to them in say the last 2-3 years? did you listen to the fiammetta link i posted itt? that was x's & o's football talk. nothing against you, but bob sturm is more knowledgeable about the cowboys, about the nfl in general, and he feels the jerry jones status quo is a big problem. also, my iq is north of ******ation level. i'm able to hear data, process it, and form an opinion. most of what i hear from bob sturm is rational and logical to me. a lot of the times what i read you and le gonso post is also logical to me. what i do read you guys say that i don't think is logical is jerry jones is okay. 15 years is a long time, and he just hasn't done anything in that time. these are the dallas cowboys not the detroit lions, so 15 years of futility is not okay.

i mean most of the guys on the ticket are pretty novice about the cowboys, but bob sturm isn't one of them. you actually might enjoy listening to his show sometimes. he talks about what "22" packages mean, and cover 5, blah, blah, blah. it's a bunch of S that i don't understand, but i find it interesting to listen to. for example, he spent 2 minutes with jason witten this week just talking about the technique jason babin was using when he pulled across two gaps and came up to hit romo on the play where he injured his hand. he's charted every play of every cowboys game for like the last 5 years. he's basically a football doctor, so if he thinks there's an issue with the gm of the team, then i don't think you can casually waive it off with a "everything's okay" and a "it's just bad luck."


edit: oh and i enjoyed the mavs' title this past summer. i enjoyed it very much

what's worse darius heyward bey at 9 or martellus bennett at 62?

honestly, if the cowboys were 3-13 every year i'd have a little more hope. i'd think maybe they'd get enough draft picks high enough in the draft that even jerry jones couldn't f it up.

It has nothing to do with the Ticket specifically. I'm sure they have some really knowledgeable people.

...................................bey.....by an unmeasurable amount?

i gotta run out for the day. pretty sure, i won't be posting too much more itt, which is at the request of le gonso who i respect, but also because the conversation i wanted to spark doesn't seem to be happening.

in closing, i think it would benefit every cowboys' fan itt to re-evaluate how they feel about the status quo of the cowboys, and if they feel it's wise to spend any more money on the cowboys. my personal opinion is the status quo at valley ranch is unacceptable, and spending money on the cowboys whether that be tickets, merchandise, etc only perpetuates the problem.

that said and as many have pointed out, i may not be the best fan. i don't feel bad about that, though, or feel i need to change. in my view, my stance is very logical. let's say you start to watch a tv series, you get into it, but a couple of episodes in it no longer captures your interest. no one would think it's illogical to discontinue watching that tv series. why should it be any different with a sports team? i don't remember signing any sort of contract with the cowboys, or for that matter the rangers, mavericks, or brewers. if i no longer enjoy watching their futility then i'm adios.

i guess it has something to do with me being about to turn 34 too. at this point in my life, i'd rather spend $300 on tickets to go see yo-yo ma at the meyerson than a down of football at cowboys stadium. you may come to a similar point in your life at some point down the road.

take care fellas

head asplode

to be honest, i enjoyed sports just in general wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy more before i started posting in the se forum.

Well to answer your question:

I watch them because I'm a 2nd-gen fan who loves football for football's sake. It's no more complicated that that for me.

You already know that before the season I thought this was an 8-8 team and said as much. I stick with them anyway, have seen all the games, and there isn't a spot on the roster I don't keep tabs on year-round. I certainly don't do it because I expect them to win a Superbowl every year or because I believe Jerry Jones is some incredible GM.

You ever have a dog? It's no different. Puppies are cute and friendly but sometimes they'll **** on your carpet. It just comes with the territory. All you can do is clean up the mess and hope he doesn't do it the next day. But whether he does or doesn't, you wouldn't abandon your dog.

Every year there are highs and lows. Even in a .500 season I still got to see Ware plowing a QB 19.5 times. I got to see some 3rd round rookie RB [that I disagreed with Jerry drafting] explode in his first full start, to break the team all-time single-game rushing record, and then go on a tear. I watched Sean Lee go from a very questionable 2nd-round pick with health issues last year to an absolutely excellent inside man. I saw one of the most ****-on QBs in this league put together a very respectable season and show a lot of the potential we saw in him in 2009.

As it happens I think they're just a middle-of-the-road team in more ways than just being 8-8 right now, but as close as games tend to be, I think they could go 11-5 just as easily as 5-11 next year. One of the great things about football is that a couple small changes can swing a team's fortunes dramatically. Maybe they draft a bunch of busts next year and run bad on every bounce. Or maybe they find a couple franchise players and a few young guys emerge. You can't predict these things.

If you don't understand any of that, I'm not sure what else to tell you. There's a lot of disappointment that goes along with being a fan of any team, especially when there are 32 teams spending the same money and only one can win a Superbowl in a given year. If you can't handle it then it's probably not for you.

I still just completely fail to see what you are trying to say.

Nobody cares if you are a bad fan. There are millions of them. Across every sport, for every team. I don't care if you switch between two teams or abandon teams or whatever else.

But you can't come into the thread, admit to being a bad fan, but then say the people following the team are worse fans because we aren't protesting our team that just went 8-8, because you heard on the radio that Jerry is a bad GM. That is what we object to, and that is what we care about. You've admitted to not watching games or caring about the team ITT, so why would we care about your opinion about the job that the GM is doing? Especially when it isn't even really your opinion, because you're just going to rehash some talking points that some dude on the radio said.

Why are you guys responding to Thundercat? He's basically the chicken**** in Saving Private Ryan that let his friend get stabbed and sat there and cried. OK, maybe just a fair weather fan thats quit the forum 11 times already. We get it. Every GM and owner in Dallas is god awful.

Go root for Green Bay.

hey ut, **** you man!

that's horse****, and it just goes to show that you can't have any idea of who someone is over the internet.

that scene in saving private ryan pisses me off, and i am nothing like that guy. in fact, if we were face to face and you said that to me you'd be picking yourself up off the ground. that's a promise. don't go assaulting my character like that.

Time for a new general manager.

thundercats posting itt <<<<<<<<<<<<<< JJs ownership abilities

WR class is very deep so Jerry won't need to overpay Robinson too much. Threw 50-60 mil at Asomough last offseason I'm guessing we'll make a run at one of these corners. Obviously not quite at those dollar figures. Cortland Finnegan come on down imo.

After Tyler Durden'ing on the internet for awhile G David Decastro is my new pet draft pick. Flip flopping the tackles and having Smith/Decastro for a decade is pretty sexy. Huge leap of faith comparing them to perennial pro bowlers but Walter Jones/Steve Hutchison rang a bell. Lets outscore some bitches ala GB/NO.

I'm usually not crazy about drafting interior lineman at #14. The bust factor is high and good ones are commonly found in later rounds. Just seems a pretty hard position to scout for (don't know why).

Besides that we've got a ton of youth inside right now, not sure another rookie is the best fit. It's too early to give up on Arkin, Kowalski, Nagy. Maybe Costa isn't hopeless either, he's a usable c/g backup if nothing else. I guess if they feel there's not enough potential there then it's defensible, otherwise a top pick is going to be a progress stopper for somebody. A 3rd-4th round center prospect would be very fair though.

But defense is really where they're hurting most, there are 3 starting vacancies and no depth.

What are the notable busts selected that high? Most recent interior linemen I can think of are the Pounceys, Alex Mack, Ben Grubbs, Mangold, Davin Joseph and Mike Iupati who are all doing well. Maybe the safest pick? And Decastro has a better grade than most of those guys. Haven't given up on Nagy/Arkin. Good thing about a line is theres plenty of spots to fill. You can find gem linemen deep in the draft but our history is rather bleak in that respect.

Three years ago I would have called drafting a guard at 14 burn down Cowboys headquarters insane but with the new NFL its really not that unbelievable. NE/NO/GBs defenses are aids. Maybe two or three defenses in the entire NFL that stand out. One dominant unit is all it takes and that can easily be our offense. Certainly need to do some patchwork at finding out Spencers future/replacement for Newman. Agree that overall we need way more help on D. Our depth is putrid. We are a year removed from being somewhere around the 29th worst.

The top two corners will already be off the board at 14. Long way to go until April though.