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Dallas Cowboys 2021: Offense and some Other Guys Dallas Cowboys 2021: Offense and some Other Guys

08-02-2011 , 04:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Gonso
AoA is another guy everyone loves because they haven't seen him play. Maybe he's a future Hall of Famer, no idea. Right now he has zero defensive snaps and some special teams play. I only mean that if one vet is signed, we might see enough out of Sendejo or Church or AoA or McCray to start one of them. The rest of the secondary are all vets so one second-year guy coming through isn't unthinkable.

There's just no depth at WR. Miles is the only real vet, Dez looks great but he's still learning and only has 2 starts and 12 games under his belt. Ogletree and crew just aren't game-proven. Look at these corners we're facing this year starting with game 1. Lose one starter and we could wind up starting Dez & Ogletree with a 5th round rookie against Nnamdi and DRC, or Revis and Cromarie. We're too thin.

As far as who, I'd start with Derrick Mason and work my way down, Naane would be a good fit. It obviously has to be a 1-year deal that can fit under the cap, but the important thing is veteran experience. Maybe camp goes great for the young guys. If there are no injuries and it can be rethought on cut day whether to keep the vet or not, but some insurance seems badly needed.

Buehler probably goes if he doesn't win outright. If you play ST you're expected to contribute on offensive or defensive packages I'd thing. An extra corner or lineman seems more valuable.
I really like Mason and Naane too. But don't you think they are a little too high on the scale? It feels like signing them we're once again putting our young players so deep on the depth chart that we're going to get to know anything about them.

I feel like we all talk about how poorly the Cowboys have drafted lately, but I really think we haven't given many draft picks a chance to play. Although it doesn't help that we keep using 2nd rounders on guys coming back from major surgeries who aren't even expected to be healthy for TC.

Last edited by ZBTHorton; 08-02-2011 at 05:20 PM.
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08-02-2011 , 07:26 PM
1 year 2.5 milly for Sensabaugh. Pretty pumped about that. He must have had absolutely no offers.
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08-02-2011 , 07:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZBTHorton
1 year 2.5 milly for Sensabaugh. Pretty pumped about that. He must have had absolutely no offers.
Thank God.
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08-02-2011 , 08:51 PM
Wow, never would have imagined that would happen. Perfect given the cap and safety situation, and he can play either spot, so the 2nd guy can be anybody. Looks like we can rule out AoA though, Campo flat out says he's not ready to start. Abram Elam has an offer on the table too but Drew Rosenhaus is his agent, so who knows.

#3 wideout is just too important and likely will need to start a few games. I don't see the harm in getting a real vet out there in the mix, one who won't break you for a 1-year deal, if Ogletree and crew play better then great. I know I've said this before, but Ogletree had 3 whole catches last year and is coming off IR. He should have to fight someone for the job.

Even the kickers are doing that. They added another UFA kicker today, who also won the Lou Groza award the year before Bailey did. Apparently Bailey is as bad at kickoffs as he is good at field goals. Forbath goes straight to the injury list for now though.
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08-02-2011 , 09:02 PM
fwiw Forbath and Bailey are top-3 kicker prospects this year and very accurate placekicker. Both weak at kickoffs.

I'm assuming one of these guys winds up on the practice squad if they don't unseat Buehler.
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08-04-2011 , 02:58 AM
Sigh. Well Newman has his yearly groin injury/leg injury. Out all of camp, I'd be shocked if he played >12 games this year.

But we signed Abe Elam. I don't even know how pathetic it must be that I'm ecstatic we signed two safeties who obviously had absolutely no interest from other teams.
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08-04-2011 , 03:32 AM
elam is a solid player, wont miss many tackles and isnt too bad in coverage

im surprised sensabaugh couldnt swing even a 2 year deal from anyone, really surprised
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08-04-2011 , 03:48 AM
Elam and Sense won't blow anyone's mind but they can they can play immediately and the money's right. Now we just have to hope some of these young secondary players come around. Bigger concern is Newman. So I guess for now it's Jenkins, Scandrick, and... Alan Ball in the slot?
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08-04-2011 , 03:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Gonso
Elam and Sense won't blow anyone's mind but they can they can play immediately and the money's right. Now we just have to hope for some development from the younger safeties before next year.

Bigger concern is Newman. So I guess for now it's Jenkins, Scandrick, and... Alan Ball in the slot?
Ohhhhhhh yeah.
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08-04-2011 , 05:05 AM
Just looking over the roster again, it's very possible that Mike Jenkins is the only secondary player that returns next year. Scandrick, Ball, and the two starting S's expire and Newman won't be back. They're saying 4-6 weeks with Newman's injury. I wonder if they'll rethink keeping him this year?

Figuring out Newman's cap numbers are tricky. He has 4 years left on a 6-year extension that had a $12 signing bonus. According to the news of the original contract the first 3 years were guaranteed - but not sure if that started in 2008 when he signed the extension or in 2009 when it kicked in. I'm assuming 2008 since his 2011 isn't guaranteed according to reports.

If cut today it would mean $8m in dead money, split 50/50 between this and next year's cap space. $4m in dead money each. It would also free $4m up for this year since you're not paying his $8m salary. You'd have to spend that money on whatever meh CB is still on the market this year.

If cut after the season, but before June 1, there would be $6m in dead cap money in 2012. Normally that's not a big deal, but this could bring the dead-money figure to $30m, against a cap they think will be about $120m next year.

If cut next season June 1 or after, you split that $6m cap hit between 2012 and 2013. For the same money you could also pay him to just play in 2012 and eat a small amount of dead space in '13.

Meh. Shame because I like Newman as a player. I just hope Jerry is starting to learn why back-loading every single contract and giving 6-year deals to aging or unproven players always has the team some kind of debt.

PS - this site has contract situations, doesn't include contract details (Rotoworld has that), but gives and idea who we're losing and what we're paying in cap terms. You can increase Romo, Ware and Austin's future cap hits since they'll have to be renegotiated to get the cap down this year.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/yearly/
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08-04-2011 , 06:04 AM
I must admit, this is by far the most down on a Cowboys team I've been in years. I remember when we made the RW11 trade and I was thrilled because I felt like we were so deep that we could afford to lose a 1st rounder. Now I look at our roster and we may have one of the most shallow lineups in the league.

I still personally believe that Romo/Austin/Dez/Witten/Felix/Ware is good enough to put a competitive team out there, and I'm excited about the development of our two ILB's. But we can't afford a single injury to the OL or DL, and pretty much the entire secondary...and I have absolutely no faith whatsoever that we have anything waiting in the wings with any of those positions.
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08-04-2011 , 11:01 AM
Yeah I can't sell them completely short with some of the talent they have, but there's more to a championship team than half a dozen star players. And right now today, Dez are Felix are more prospect than proven. There's a new coach, new DC and we've seen injured or cap-burdened teams put up a good fight before. I don't know if Garrett can coach worth a damn but he's a sharp guy and seems to have his head in the right place at least.

These last two years' rookie pools are going to have to carry a lot of weight, and soon. And if it's not too much to ask, it would be nice to occasionally see a second-day draft pick win a starting job in the first or second year.

Last edited by Gonzirra; 08-04-2011 at 11:08 AM.
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08-04-2011 , 12:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Gonso
and... Alan Ball in the slot?
I just threw up.
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08-05-2011 , 06:30 PM
The Dallas crew saying all of the backup safeties look terrible, AoA doing nothing. Sam Young at backup tackle horrible so far too.
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08-05-2011 , 07:46 PM
Apparently Holland not only showed up out-of-shape, but he has a bum knee and injured his lower back today. Whats the report on David Arkin? I'm not too thrilled about the state of the RG position aorn.
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08-06-2011 , 01:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Gonso
The Dallas crew saying all of the backup safeties look terrible, AoA doing nothing. Sam Young at backup tackle horrible so far too.
AOA just has no reason to be good. He was taken as a complete "athlete" style flyer. He barely played last year, and has no practices/OTA's. I have no idea why DMN/ESPND were even talking about him having impact.

As for Young, that surprises me. I was expecting a reasonable backup RT out of him. Although he may be that, and they're just surprised he isn't playing like a starter.
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08-06-2011 , 01:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CandyKreep
Apparently Holland not only showed up out-of-shape, but he has a bum knee and injured his lower back today. Whats the report on David Arkin? I'm not too thrilled about the state of the RG position aorn.
I think Arkin is the kind of guy who could fill in if needed. He's tough and smart, won't make mental mistakes, etc. But he's still a 4th freaking round rookie and he'll be on the same side as Smith. Two rookies on the same side? Ugh, seems like a recipe for disaster.
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08-06-2011 , 04:36 PM
Those guys made it a point to single out how bad Young has looked, as in he's getting tossed around.

From bits and pieces Arkin might have a shot at serious playing time right away, they say they're not signing more guards. Holland is Holland. He plays just okay enough to start if you need a body.

Two rookies on the same side is scary, but at least it's the strong side. Romo can see it and we usually have a solid blocking TE there to help out. Really, can it be much worse than Davis/Columbo were last year? At ~$3.8m they're at least cheaper and younger. Hell at least we actually drafted o-linemen.
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08-07-2011 , 05:19 AM
Yeah, I'd be pretty stoked if we got a stud tackle and serviceable guard in the same draft.

I just had a baby two weeks ago, so I've been unable to follow TC with the ridiculous following I usually do. Is there anywhere that has a listing of our late round selections/UDFA signings and how they are performing at practices thus far?

I'd like to know who to be looking for in the preseason games. The past few years we've had so few TC battles, this year could actually be exciting.

Last edited by ZBTHorton; 08-07-2011 at 05:43 AM.
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08-07-2011 , 05:00 PM
Quote:
The only name Jones would confirm in his initial list is Abilene Christian wide receiver Raymond Radway, who has been a pleasant surprise with his pure speed and big-play ability.

Other guys that might be in that mix include linebackers Orie Lemon and possibly Alex Albright who have turned some heads here in these first 10 days.

As for the offensive lineman, it could be Toledo center Kevin Kowalski, who provides some versatility with his ability to play guard.

Jones didn’t mention Oklahoma State kicker Dan Bailey by name, but he might just have the best chance of any rookie free agent to make the squad, having a head-to-head competition with David Buehler for the place-kicking job.

Also, running backs Phillip Tanner and Frank Howard have been taking advantage of more reps in the running game with Tashard Choice and DeMarco Murray both sidelined.
Radway's name keeps coming up all over, they really seem to like him a lot. We need a true speed receiver (we need receivers, period). Good shot at making the team if he holds up and can play some special teams. Albright's name I've heard a bit also. Bailey's dropped off hard though, but it's not like Buehler is tearing it up. Looks like Buehler keeps his job if this keeps up just since he can kick off, but they have another young kicker hurt so we'll see.

Lonyae Miller getting some props too, I remember they liked him last year also. I could see him being the #4 or maybe even replacing Choice.
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08-08-2011 , 05:19 PM
Updating on that last comment, Choice trade rumors are swirling. From everything I'm reading at this point it looks like Lonyae Miller is very favored as far as making the team. I know Tashard is kind of viewed as a high-upside secret weapon, and he did look pretty good running the rock a couple years ago when everyone else got hurt. But consider:

*He hasn't done anything since
*Choice has been out with injury so far this camp
*It's the last year of his deal and Dallas is really short on cap space next year. With Felix and a 3rd-round rookie, it's very unlikely Choice would be brought back for more than the minimum. Miller is an exclusive-rights FA next year so we know he's not going anywhere and couple potentially sign a very cheap extension
*Choice sucks on special teams while Miller has done well (a big factor for a #3 back)

I don't really see a trade being good until the end of camp with all of the injury risk to RBs, and I can't rule out that they might go 4-deep at RB if other positions come up weak and other teams would want him sooner. But if Miller is looking as good as they're making out I wouldn't miss Tashard much. Maybe we could get a 7th or some player we can actually use this year in trade.

PS - the Cortland Finnegan for Choice rumor sounds ridiculous, don't see the Titans ever doing that. The Lions maybe.

Last edited by Gonzirra; 08-08-2011 at 05:28 PM.
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08-08-2011 , 09:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Gonso
Updating on that last comment, Choice trade rumors are swirling. From everything I'm reading at this point it looks like Lonyae Miller is very favored as far as making the team. I know Tashard is kind of viewed as a high-upside secret weapon, and he did look pretty good running the rock a couple years ago when everyone else got hurt. But consider:

*He hasn't done anything since
*Choice has been out with injury so far this camp
*It's the last year of his deal and Dallas is really short on cap space next year. With Felix and a 3rd-round rookie, it's very unlikely Choice would be brought back for more than the minimum. Miller is an exclusive-rights FA next year so we know he's not going anywhere and couple potentially sign a very cheap extension
*Choice sucks on special teams while Miller has done well (a big factor for a #3 back)

I don't really see a trade being good until the end of camp with all of the injury risk to RBs, and I can't rule out that they might go 4-deep at RB if other positions come up weak and other teams would want him sooner. But if Miller is looking as good as they're making out I wouldn't miss Tashard much. Maybe we could get a 7th or some player we can actually use this year in trade.

PS - the Cortland Finnegan for Choice rumor sounds ridiculous, don't see the Titans ever doing that. The Lions maybe.

I like Choice, but I'd be all for trading him. I've heard good things about Miller and Murray will be a beast when he gets healthy. We could use help in plenty other areas.
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08-09-2011 , 02:44 AM
I'd absolutely love to trade Choice if he has any value. I've said it before on here, but if I ran a team I'd constantly draft late round RB's and never give any of them a single extension. They are just hurt way too much and seem to really lose their edge after receiving big contracts.

I like Choice, but he doesn't like ST, and he doesn't play otherwise. If we have someone out there who wants to do those things, give him the damn job.
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08-09-2011 , 03:24 AM
I always thought Choice has a fair amount of potential as a backup or maybe even a lead back, maybe he does. But we don't see what the coaches do, and clearly Garrett doesn't hold him in very high regard. If after 3 years they're not sold on him then it's hard for me to be. Or maybe Miller just looks very good. If Choice nets a 6th on his way out I'd be happy. He's been a good #3 and was fair value on a mid-4th round draft pick all-in-all. 1k yards, 8 TDs, never missed time. 53 receptions too. If only the guy could play ST.

If Choice gets traded to a RB-needy team, it wouldn't at all amaze me to see him put up 1,500 yards from scrimmage and 10 TDs.I'm probably wrong but it wouldn't surprise me at all.
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08-12-2011 , 12:08 AM
Well, I feel a little better about that #3 and 4 receiver spot. Impressive stuff from Dwayne Harris and solid from Ogletree.
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