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Dallas Cowboys 2021: Offense and some Other Guys Dallas Cowboys 2021: Offense and some Other Guys

07-26-2011 , 04:09 PM
ESPN reporting the following to be cut so far:

Marion Barber
Roy Williams
Leonard Davis
Kris Brown

There has been a significant change somewhere with regard to cap accelerations. It sounds like they are prorating the dead money over this and the next season like a post-June 1 cut for everyone, which changes a lot for Roy Williams and apparently Leonard Davis.

Quote:
Because of the remaining proration of his contract, it was assumed that "the Cowboys are on the hook for $12.9 million if Williams is cut." Effectively, it would have cost the Cowboys money to release Roy Williams - under the rules of the old CBA. Calvin Watkins from ESPNDallas.com is reporting that if Roy Williams is a June 1 cut under the new CBA, Williams saves the Cowboys $5 million in 2011.
So we'll probably lose some cap space next year also, but at least we can get these guys off the books.

Now we definitely have to bring back Kosier, no two ways about it, and bank on Ogletree and the rest to step up and take the #3 spot.
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07-26-2011 , 04:50 PM
Ogletree will be a stud this year.
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07-26-2011 , 05:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatOnRiver
Ogletree will be a stud this year.
He's definitely shown enough to be a solid #3 imo.

I'm not worried about the skill positions much, I'm worried about S, CB, and OL.
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07-26-2011 , 05:58 PM
I'm worried about Doug Free playing for someone else this year. Not franchising him looks pretty terrible at this point. You want a raw rookie starting at LT with Columbo back on the right side?
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07-26-2011 , 06:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CandyKreep
He's definitely shown enough to be a solid #3 imo.
How? The guy was active 6 games last year and caught 3 passes before going to IR. In two years that's 10 catches (and 2 fumbles). He flashed a little in camp in '09 but most said he regressed last year and his hands look very questionable. He's shown enough to come to camp and fight for a roster spot, but that's about it.

There's a ton of hype & hope around this guy but no real production, and with Austin and Bryant's injury history there's a real chance the #3 will have to start at some point. I mean it would be great if he works out but with RW gone I'm very skittish about WR depth. I'd like to see them bring in a low-priced vet to camp to compete, someone with experience, there's some available are more coming + lots of guys you could trade for. Brian Finneran might be worth a look. Actually Sam Hurd suddenly makes a lot more sense if he were at all reasonable.

But that whole lot of guys after Miles & Dez are a bunch of serious question marks, we're still not even sure they're NFL-caliber players let alone solid #3 types. The Roy deal really set the team back. If we didn't get extremely fortunate finding Miles imagine the disaster we'd have today.
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07-28-2011 , 02:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Gonso
How? The guy was active 6 games last year and caught 3 passes before going to IR. In two years that's 10 catches (and 2 fumbles). He flashed a little in camp in '09 but most said he regressed last year and his hands look very questionable. He's shown enough to come to camp and fight for a roster spot, but that's about it.

There's a ton of hype & hope around this guy but no real production, and with Austin and Bryant's injury history there's a real chance the #3 will have to start at some point. I mean it would be great if he works out but with RW gone I'm very skittish about WR depth. I'd like to see them bring in a low-priced vet to camp to compete, someone with experience, there's some available are more coming + lots of guys you could trade for. Brian Finneran might be worth a look. Actually Sam Hurd suddenly makes a lot more sense if he were at all reasonable.

But that whole lot of guys after Miles & Dez are a bunch of serious question marks, we're still not even sure they're NFL-caliber players let alone solid #3 types. The Roy deal really set the team back. If we didn't get extremely fortunate finding Miles imagine the disaster we'd have today.
I'm not saying that based on regular season play; the WR position was a bit of a logjam last year, so it's not surprising that he was only active for 6 games. But that's not for a lack of potential imo. I think he can be a solid #3 based on what he's shown in the past, as far as how he's performed in training camp and preseason. Maybe that's being overly optimistic. Besides, it's not like good players are incapable of flying under the radar for a long time.. look at Miles.

Although granted, Sam Hurd would make more sense.. more experienced, contributes more on ST, etc, etc.
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07-28-2011 , 07:12 PM
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The moves save the Cowboys roughly $18 million in salary cap space in 2011 but will carry over more than $20 million in dead money on the 2012 salary cap.
Pretty awful that we've already lost 1/6th of our cap space for next year. Brooking, Bennett, Choice, Holland, Bradie James, Mat McBriar, McCann, Ogletree, Scandrick, Spencer all expire after this season. That's not very much money freed up as they're all cheap. Igor, Newman, Kitna, maybe Gurode will probably all be cut which will help a little bit but then you have to replace a lot of contributors. And then think of whatever other busts we might need to cut and eat more dead money.

Then money has to be found for replacements, and to extend Witten. We're really in bad cap shape going forward. What if an Ogletree or Holley or Tashard Choice blows up? They really need to go easy on these contracts they give out this year. A couple of those big cuts should have been delayed another year imo. It's going to be a real challenge to get under the cap next season even after losing a ton of players (and we're not done signing people yet).
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07-29-2011 , 01:44 PM
So I read an article the other day on DC.com where Stephen Jones said that Newman would be back this year, i.e. they weren't in the market for a FA CB. Now I see on NFL.com that Nnamadi Asu-whateverthe**** has narrowed his decision down to the Jets or Cowboys.... is this some kind of really sick tease?
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07-29-2011 , 01:53 PM
What do you guys think of Stephen Bowen and losing him?
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07-29-2011 , 02:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler Durden
What do you guys think of Stephen Bowen and losing him?
He was good, and I'm sad to see him go.

But he wasn't $27.5 million good imo.
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07-29-2011 , 05:30 PM
Hey guys, I'm planning on hitting a game this year since I've never been and have a couple questions.

Should I just stay in Dallas or by the stadium? Reason is I'll be there for a few days and would like to check out some other things as well. Or anywhere else thats close?

I'll be flying in and won't have a vehicle fwiw or would you reccomend getting one as it would be a pain in the ass getting around?

Any hotel recommendations? Which airport is best to fly into? I'm Canadian but will be flying out of Buffalo.

Best way to get tickets?
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07-30-2011 , 12:15 AM
Is anyone else concerned that we have not signed one safety yet? I think Huff should b our number one priority.

Also **** the eagles.
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07-30-2011 , 03:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler Durden
What do you guys think of Stephen Bowen and losing him?
I like the guy to and had some hopes for him maybe moving into a starter role, but giving him a long term $5m/year deal is pretty high. It could work out for you, but from everything I've seen over the past 5 years Spears is the better player and went for $4m a year.
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07-30-2011 , 05:05 AM
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Originally Posted by yakkers
Is anyone else concerned that we have not signed one safety yet? I think Huff should b our number one priority.
Disagree. The #1 priority right now is filling a few gaps without signing any big deals. At it stands today the 2012 cap will have $23 million in dead money, and our free agency isn't over yet. And when Newman and a couple others are cut next year there will be even more dead money.

Much as I'd like to have some of those better FAs, Dallas is facing catastrophic personnel losses over the next couple of seasons and just doesn't have the cap space to needed to re-sign or replace them. Some of these young backups making league minimum now that we're counting on for the future will develop, and we need to be in a position to pay them. Imagine Miles Austin or Doug Free getting signed to someone else this year, just after breaking out.

Here are contracts expiring after the 2011 season. Ideally, you'd extend guys before the deals end, so they're not unrestricted free agents you have to compete with 31 other teams for, but we already know how tough that will be.

Martellus Bennett
Tashard Choice
Montrae Holland
Bradie James
Keith Brooking
Manny Johnson
Mat McBriar
Lonyae Miller (ERFA)
Kevin Ogletree
Jeremy Parnell (ERFA)
Orlando Scandrick
Andrew Sendejo (ERFA)
Anthony Spencer
Teddy Williams (ERFA)

Now if you're me, there's a bunch of names that won't be missed. There are some that are useful guys and some that could emerge this year for us though. In any case there just aren't enough draft picks to replace them, and don't forget you're likely to have even more players to replace, like when Igor and Newman and Gurode and whoever else is cut.

And now here's a bunch of the contracts that expire after the 2012 season (and we'll assume none of the 2013 crowd decide to hold out and demand new deals):

Victor Butler
Barry Church
Phil Costa (RFA)
Chris Gronkowski (RFA)
Andre Gurode
Mike Jenkins
Felix Jones
L.P. Ladouceur
Danny McCray (RFA)
Stephen McGee
John Phillips
Jay Ratliff
Brandon Williams
Jason Witten
Any fringe player that has stuck around since the 2009 or 2010 season

A couple of exceptions aside there are a lot of names on this list that are likely to be core contributors who are still young. And there's always a couple attractive players on the free agent markets we'd like the option of going after too. In good cap shape we could sign a guy like Asomugha without losing him to a division rival.

but when I hear Jerry fighting to bring in an Asomugha or people wanting these high-priced guys signed the the hole we're already in, I'm really against it. If we were one or two guys shy of a Superbowl today, yeah okay. Right now though the smart thing to do is focus on finding and developing cheap talent, and getting our cap back in competitive shape so we don't get stuck going 5-11 for years on end. We have enough window with Romo, Ware, Dez and some of these other guys if we're smart now.
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07-30-2011 , 08:36 AM
Huff should not be that expensive and i just don't see how we can not sign him after last years safety play.

Your points make sense however i hate to go into the season thinking we are solely building for the future. The games we lost under Garret last year were all within 7 points. Although we do have some holes (dbs, guard, de) i think we have enough to make a run at the superbowl.
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07-30-2011 , 09:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Gonso
I like the guy to and had some hopes for him maybe moving into a starter role, but giving him a long term $5m/year deal is pretty high. It could work out for you, but from everything I've seen over the past 5 years Spears is the better player and went for $4m a year.
Didn't Spears lose his job to Bowen last season?
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07-30-2011 , 01:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler Durden
Didn't Spears lose his job to Bowen last season?
No.. if I remember correctly, Spears had to go on IR in the middle of the season and Bowen stepped in. Gonso, correct me if I'm wrong.
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07-30-2011 , 04:33 PM
He wasn't benched, he went down during the Packers game and to IR. There were hopes that Bowen or Hatcher could emerge last offseason and move ahead of Spears and give a long term replacement but it didn't work out that way.

Again I like Bowen, he's 27 and has real some experience, played well enough for a shot at starting and probably has some upside. Or, he'll be a decent backup. Don't know. Wouldn't pay that kind of cash to find out though.
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07-30-2011 , 05:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yakkers
Huff should not be that expensive and i just don't see how we can not sign him after last years safety play.
I don't see how we could. If you make every reasonable cap-saving cut possible and let all of the expired contracts go, you'll still need cap room to drop some dead weight, sign rookies, and cover the heavier cap burdens of the renegotiated contracts.

Quote:
Your points make sense however i hate to go into the season thinking we are solely building for the future. The games we lost under Garret last year were all within 7 points. Although we do have some holes (dbs, guard, de) i think we have enough to make a run at the superbowl.
I'm not suggesting this is a rebuilding-mode period, just that we right the books while there's still a window of opportunity with the core talent. A Superbowl run looks very unlikely this year, with or without a Michael Huff. Too many holes, too many questionable starters, and not nearly enough depth. I still think they can be competitive but they're going to have to do it smartly.

Believe me, next year there will be some other hot free agent corner or pass-rusher we absolutely have to sign to fill a need. Or there will be young studs we just can't let go of. And the year after next and the year after that too, same thing. You've got to be tired of overpaying free agents and cutting them for tons of dead money year in and out. This is why we're stuck signing mediocre vets every year and missing on the good ones.

Don't forget they signed two very good UFAs this year - Doug Free and Marcus Spears, and we'll get a few lesser ones like Kenyon Coleman to help out, ideally without burying the team.

Last edited by Gonzirra; 07-30-2011 at 05:22 PM.
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08-01-2011 , 06:06 AM
Huff's gone.

Abe Elam one time? Maybe bring Sensy back too?
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08-01-2011 , 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by ZBTHorton
Huff's gone.

Abe Elam one time? Maybe bring Sensy back too?
Yeah this... or something.

If we start Allan Ball and Church/AoA at safety, I'm going to vomit.
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08-01-2011 , 09:22 PM
Elam is a sensible option but nothing special. Dallas fans are all over his Twitter begging him to sign, I'm down if he's cheap. If he thinks he's worth $4m a year or whatever then hell no. Would like to have Sense back but he wants too much money I think. Would not be at all surprised to see Elam + Sendejo or one of these other young guys starting this year.

Hatcher signed 3 years/$6m. Not a great deal but fair. 50/50 Igor is cut, definitely next year if he doesn't light it up this year.

When all is said and done with free agency and reworking the contracts I'll probably break down the 2012 cap. It's going to be brutal and some of it will have to go into 2013. They really have to watch what they spend on safety help in the worst way.

Dan Bailey (K) is doing a great job in practice so far. Took him four days to miss a kick. Buehler? Buehler?
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08-01-2011 , 09:31 PM
If we sign 1 starting safety I feel like we might just make do. Alan Ball will probably be back but will probably play corner and safety as a backup. Ryan's system doesn't make a huge distinction between FS and SS from what I understand, so there's AoA and a handful of guys to compete for one starting spot which I can live with. Not happy about it but given the situation it's probably the right thing to do.

Once a safety is signed, I think a veteran wideout and another guard are the next two priorities. Ogletree is unproven, Arkin's a mid-round rookie, and Holland apparently showed up out of shape. If these guys earn the spots they're needed for then great, but just handing them the position is a terrible plan. Plus, injuries and whatnot. Need help.
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08-02-2011 , 06:01 AM
I really feel like if AOA is our starting safety we are in real trouble. He was a project when we drafted him, and didn't get to see any action last year + no OTA's. I can't even imagine how bad he would be. I'd think Ball would be a huge upgrade over him. I'd rather be thin at WR and G than Safety.

Gonso, what veteran wideout would you like to see us go after? I'm fairly comfortable with Ogletree as the third WR(in comparison to not having a safety anyway).

Also, put me on record as having no idea how Buehler could possibly make this team. With a large amount of his kickoff advantage gone now, I have no idea why we'd have him as our kicker. On a side note, I know this sounds completely ridiculous, but is there anyway Buehler would make the team as a special teams ace if he didn't as a kicker?
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08-02-2011 , 08:57 AM
AoA is another guy everyone loves because they haven't seen him play. Maybe he's a future Hall of Famer, no idea. Right now he has zero defensive snaps and some special teams play. I only mean that if one vet is signed, we might see enough out of Sendejo or Church or AoA or McCray to start one of them. The rest of the secondary are all vets so one second-year guy coming through isn't unthinkable.

There's just no depth at WR. Miles is the only real vet, Dez looks great but he's still learning and only has 2 starts and 12 games under his belt. Ogletree and crew just aren't game-proven. Look at these corners we're facing this year starting with game 1. Lose one starter and we could wind up starting Dez & Ogletree with a 5th round rookie against Nnamdi and DRC, or Revis and Cromarie. We're too thin.

As far as who, I'd start with Derrick Mason and work my way down, Naane would be a good fit. It obviously has to be a 1-year deal that can fit under the cap, but the important thing is veteran experience. Maybe camp goes great for the young guys. If there are no injuries and it can be rethought on cut day whether to keep the vet or not, but some insurance seems badly needed.

Buehler probably goes if he doesn't win outright. If you play ST you're expected to contribute on offensive or defensive packages I'd thing. An extra corner or lineman seems more valuable.
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