Well, kyleb, if you want to go individual move I return to my absolute bewilderment at the Kerry Wood signing and my firey anger at the way we seem to get our jollies trying to play as many people farther left on the defensive spectrum than appropriate(if possible without actually improving the defense), specifically the intriguing mix of third basemen and catchers we've used at first for the past half decade.

If Wedge wants a pass for his ******ed lineups, he's going to need a counter argument. Doing something other than underperforming 3rd order wins would be a decent start to that counter argument.


FGators just thought he was running bad.

I have explained the point of mentioning Guthrie like 4 times now.

You haven't explained anything, you just keep saying "we dumped Guthrie right before he got good."

Learn to read.

You're not explaining anything, you're just saying we dumped the wrong guy in a roster crunch, completely ignoring that he hadn't proven anything and was already 28 years old. You're not making any sense.

NO I AM NOT SAYING THAT JESUS ****ING CHRIST YOU ARE PUTTING ME ON MONKEY TILT.

relax...we won yesterday, and my brother's wife got Grady's signature after the game...

GET ANGRY AGAIN... WE LOST TODAY, TRADED DE ROSA, AND YOUR BROTHER'S WIFE WAS THINKING ABOUT GRADY WHEN THEY HAD SEX LAST NIGHT

Traded for Chris Perez, wowowowow. Sick trade.

Srsly Chris Perez and a PTNBL. Shapiro likes his PTNBL to be of higher quality than most(like the conditional prospect in the Sabathia trade) so I'll reserve judgment until more information leaks about who it might be.

It could be Dick McDickerson and I'd love this trade.

Well, obviously I'd rather have Perez than De Rosa. I'd rather have Perez than the 3 guys we traded to get De Rosa. But it could be a good trade or a great trade if Shapiro is doing his "good PTNBL" thing again.

True. I just like dumping DeRosa's salary and getting a possibly elite closer at the league minimum. Not sure who the PTBNL could be, though.

This deal kicks ass, though I admit I'm a huge Chris Perez fan. I wasn't even sure we'd get Perez, much less him and a second player. The PTBNL is not a scrub either, so this looks awesome. Also, you have to figure that the PTBNL will be at least as good as Jeff Stevens, the best guy we gave up to get DeRosa.

Driveline Mechanics will have a three-part article on this trade - I'm doing the mechanical analysis, Jeff Zimmerman is doing PITCHf/x work, and devil_fingers is doing transaction analysis (WAR/Salary/Projections work). My stuff goes up tonight.

Also, if you combine this year's deal with last year's deadline trade, Shapiro has essentially swapped five months of a versatile .270/.340/.455 rental player in exchange for Carlos Santana, Chris Perez, Jonathan Meloan, and a fourth player. In comparison, Jim Hendry dealt six months of that same player for two old, generic relief prospects and a young one with poor control.

lolz

she can be thinking about Santa Claus for all i care, as long as they make me a nephew soon, i'm good..

i know nothing about chris perez, but if you guys think he's good, i'm okay with it i guess...means wood's gonna hit the door soon too, which is probably also good.

i remember thinking derosa was the kind of player we needed to make a run when we got him. the way everything's gone, no point in keeping him i guess, but this does mean they're shutting it down..

i dunno, if it's a good deal, it's a good deal. derosa might not have quite lived up to MY expectations, but it's probably time to starting thinking about 2010 and beyond..

there, i said it, i give up.

i've been spouting about 'hey we're only X games out, if we can get hot....' for weeks now.

no more.

De Rosa is a guy with a lot of value for a contender but none at all for a bad team. Getting a Perez-caliber talent for him is a steal.

And it's more than just Perez, too, which is more than most people expected. It seems like just two or three days ago, MLBTR linked something about the Cardinals not being willing to give up Motte straight-up for DeRo. Obviously, that was BS, but I'm pretty shocked they were willing to give up Perez AND another player. Castrovince said:

By himself, Perez would have been excellent return for DeRo; getting another non-scrub in the deal is fantastic.

This is pretty spot-on, imo, as a casual observer of this trade.

how's that work, exactly?

i think i remember hearing that the cardinals would put up several players, and the indians would pick from them, but how do you determine the 3 players to choose from? do the indians get to name say, 5 guys, and then the cardinals pick who to ship, or what?

i know the PTBN has been around forever, but what's stopping a team from just saying '**** off' when the main players have already been shipped?

We and the Cards agreed on a list of players we can choose from, and we have (I believe) six months to decide which guy we want. At any time, we can pick the guy we want, or we can just wait until the last possible day to make our selection. It's actually a really underrated way to pick up prospects, as a guy's stock could significantly improve or decline in those six months.

It can depend on a lot of things - they'll exchange PTBNL sheets and agree on a range of guys, and who gets chosen can depend on how the Indians or the Cardinals finish, or maybe the Indians just want to see how the season plays out before selecting a guy (typically injury risks make it on the PTBNL list), etc. There's no set logistics for a PTBNL trade.

2 replies for the price of 1..

so, when they exchange PTBN sheets, the indians can hold up the proceedings unless they get another name or two added, or the 'range' of players upped a bit??

if that's the case, why don't they just ask for the player they want?? so that they still have the 6 months to evaluate further?

seems like a pretty awesome concept, actually...thanks, i knew a little bit about it, but never really 'knew' about it, thanks..

anything else?