GREEEEARING

Have a pickem league at work and had Carolina -4, and Olsen on my fantasy team, what a useless loss.

Almost needed Johnny to finish the season ****ty so at least they could dump him without issue.

you're still speaking in concrete terms..."without issue"?

that **** couldn't happen regardless of suckage, nor should it.

Yep, he could go out and throw 10 straight picks and the apologists would still demand he start next year.

Im not certain what you're trying to argue for. Looking back on this thread it seems like you're saying you'd rather be 0-16 so you can get a no. 1 overall pick, rather then "4-12 or 6-10" with a weaker draft pick. If so, I believe you grossly overly weight the importance of the QB, which is difficult to do.

Grossly over-weighting the importance of the QB in the NFL? That's a new one.

You claimed that it was a crapshoot for getting a good QB with an early pick. I pretty much showed that while there were a handful of busts, the vast majority of top 5 picks were pretty solid QBs. Far from a crap shoot. Of course you lose track of the argument.

I didn't forget the point. The premise of the discussion was based on you agreeing with another poster. You never stated that point in your own words so I gave you a chance to clarify, which you avoided and instead opted to try to compare E-penises. I have no desire to spend my time trying to teach you about the NFL, although I will spend 5 seconds to tell you that cherry-picking data does not close or support a discussion.

15 years of data = cherry picking.

I'm sure you have a lot to "teach me". LOL. You've been the biggest clown in the whole thread.

it's far too early to lament JFF as a bust

Meh...

Of course, but I wouldn't bet on him either.

Probably far too early to lament me a bust too, but the fact that I'm 33 and haven't played competitive football in my life put the odds it.

So you would consider betting on yourself to have a higher ceiling than Manziel. Interesting.

JFF has obviously been humbled. Hopefully he responds well to that this off season. He's a super competitive guy so there's a chance he puts in the work. As I pointed out earlier in this thread, he won the Hies as a 20 yo freshman and came back the following season and had a better year. That makes me hopeful that Johnny is capable of being a hard worker. The evidence against that is that he got an NFL payday and obviously didn't give it 100% this season. I know he comes from money, but I'm hopeful that the potential of a big NFL payday still motivates him so that he's not under his family's thumb. That said, I hope we find a way to keep Hoyer, don't draft a QB, and build a team that plays hard. I'd have no problem if we only drafted OL and DL this year. Plus it's important to remember that Hoyer only has a year+ of playing experience under his belt. Given his work ethic, I'd be surprised if he doesn't improve before next year. And f that noise about Hoyer not playing well with a rookie chomping at his heels. That kinda pressure is nothing compared to the pressure on the field.

Yes, that's exactly what I said.

pretty sure tom has been drinking texas tap water for the past several years, they add longhorn testosterone and HGH at the source, might be a bad bet.

Hoyer is 29. He's not getting measurably better regardless of additional game experience.

We have 3 Pro Bowl caliber OLs and we play a 3-4. Why in the world would you be ok with drafting all OL and DL?

I would disagree about stating Hoyer won't improve. I understand he's old by NFL standards, but not as much by elite QB standards. He's had like 17 starts? Plus he's a serious student of the game. Maybe he doesn't improve, but his range isn't capped by any means. I seriously hope we can keep Hoyer. I see nothing better than him in the draft or on FA without reaching/over paying for something slightly better.

Regarding me stating that we could draft nothing but OL and DL and I'd be ok with it, I suppose I was overstating my case. Our OL obviously needs depth, McDonald and Seymore have proven they aren't legit backups. The DL is borderline outstanding as is, with awesome depth. The Browns simply experienced a perfect storm of injuries. Although it would be nice to take an elite, large, gap stuffin DL prospect high in the draft--if one exists. Besides those positions my only concern is a need for a tall young WR. But all these concerns depend a lot which FAs we keep.

I suppose you were overstating your case when you used elite qb's ages during skill decline in reference to hoyer too...

Using Brady, Manning, and say Farve for "elite" QBs who are old (or played to old age). What age do you think they peaked?

good season

Seems a pretty savvy move. With him having only suited up for 5 games, this season won't count towards his free agent eligibility, so they now have a year to auction him off. I mean it appears thats what this is.

Gotta think some donkey front office will make it rain draft equity.

Sucks though cos I wanted him to have a hof career as a brown.

This looks like a pretty blatant FU move. As a Browns fan you aren't worried a front office that does stuff like his is gonna have a hard time getting players to play for it? If I was a free agent I wouldn't be looking to join a franchise that is so bad and treats the players bad and does moves that could potentially cost them millions.

At least in New England the last decade here was always the incentive of playing for ringz, even if you knew you were probably gonna get shafted at some point.

Potential angle aside, its a pretty defensible suspension, afaict.

yeah, but I don't think there's a player on the team that needs less of a reason to be an idiot over the offseason and ota's