The workaround would be you gotta do like 1st + 4th for two seconds or something. The other workaround would be balancing the 2 for 2 by making it so that the guy trading the 1st also include a pick from the year after.

Btw this raises something else to include in our rule book. Imagine you trade your 2nd rounder in 2015, and then when 2015 comes along you only toss 1 player back to the pool. You effectively have no second rounder. So do we agree to put in the constitution that if you trade a pick, you have to commit to dropping as many players as it takes to qualify for those picks? You trade a 3rd in 2015, you gotta drop 3.

We could just move the date at which we have to have our roster at 20 players one day after the draft is over.

I think Kuta's rules were designed to make it so that people couldn't hoard on speculative guys, and then cut down after. I do like the idea of drafting as many as you drop, and I get why he did it that way.

That would simplify the trading process and it's not like any team will be able to use any of the players during the season. The rosters would still be set at 20 players before the season starts. This would just add value to waivers (which I don't think hurts anything) and make trading during the draft easier.

This would be more like how NFL teams do it. Plus the draft wouldn't be infinite rounds either. Which is odd.


5-6 rounds and set deadline for rosters to be dropped to 20 players at the day after the draft ends.

Rafiki the 20 player roster limits prevent speculative player hoarding all by itself. There's little room for that.

I'm confused though, are you saying we don't cut roster players before the draft, or we still do? Because I think what we're trying to encourage is that free agents are tossed into the draft pool fairly before the draft. Nobody would cut anyone if we did it the other way.

I'm saying the way it's set up right now is odd and makes trading on draft day more difficult. If we are trying to prevent hoarding of speculative players we're trying to fix a problem we don't have. If we set a deadline at which we have to have our rosters down to 20 players one day after our rookie draft that would still give us one WW process before the start of the season for guys to put claims in on players.

I don't see a down side to this really.

Well I do. I want to be able to draft players people cut!

It's in my proposed rules:

"A team has the discretion to release as many or as few of its players as it chooses. However, if that team trades an Nth round draft pick, the number of players released must equal at least N-1. For example, if a team trades away its 3rd round draft pick prior to the draft, it must release at least 2 players."

So if you trade me a 3rd round pick, your 3rd round pick has to be in existence. You would be force to drop at least 2 players. On the flip side, if I want that 3rd round pick, I have to drop as many players as necessary to get to that pick.

I hope this makes sense.

Waterwolves - there is an absolute enormous downside to your suggestion that we do not cut down to 20 until after the draft. In that case, NO ONE would drop any players prior to the draft. That means that the entire draft would be solely rookies.

And just FYI, last year this exact rule was in place. You could not traded two 2nd round picks for 1 first round picks. The number of players exchanged had to be equal. The same is true here, you can never go over 20 players under any circumstances.

Rafiki you can still claim players drop after the draft. This won't stop you from doing that. It just changes the way in which you would aquire those players. You're acting like this would stop you from doing that. It's not the case. There are still draft able players on the WW right now.

Their is no downside to having 25 players on your team for roughly 1 week. You get no points from them. You guys still get a chance to exploit owners bad decisions and it doesn't making trading picks more difficult. We can have both really but whatever.

That's not true. There are several players on the WW right now that are draft able now. Plus what exactly is so terrible about drafting rookies in a rookie draft?

Meh anyway I'm against it waterwolves. I like it the way Kuta set it out.

The way kuta has it set up you have to consider who you are going to drop two years in the future if you trade for a 2015 pick. Just saying.

Ya or you simply forfeit the pick. I'm fine with it. Someone trades me a 1st rounder in 2015, I'll always find some second QB to cut, or a D, or some rubbish.

You could also re-trade it if you don't want to drop anyone too.

I'm with WW. It makes trading during the draft odd. I would rather draft and THEN drop players to fit the roster later.

I don't think hoarding is something we have to worry about with such a small roster (for a dynasty), and I'm not sure why rafiki is all excited about drafting the dropped players since...

A) you can still pick up said players after the draft.
B) I'd be shocked if anybody *that* good is dropped.

Why not just do..

A) draft on day X
B) reduce your roster via cuts by day Y
C) have all dropped players go on waivers until Z
D) put in waiver claims

I mean, waiver claims is almost like a draft itself. What's the problem with that now?

Making people drop N-1 players when they trade pick N kinda let's them still free roll. Let's assume this draft class is awful, and I'm not going to want anybody left after the second round. If I trade my 3rd rounder away I'm basically trading away nothing since I wasn't going to drop a player for the pick anyway.

Dropping post draft is such much simpler.

We're gonna need a vote (and an agreement on how many votes are needed)

It's an odd way of doing it and I see no real benefit to it. I mean instead of you using a late 2nd round pick on a player someone dropped before the draft. You draft either a rookie or someone on the WW during the draft and then make a claim after the draft on a player someone dropped.

My proposal would be to make the draft 5 rounds. During the one or two week period there is no limit on how many players you have on your roster that you acquire during the draft process. For example if you traded for four 2nd round picks and had a pick in every other round you would have 28 players on your team but you have to be at the 20 players roster limit by a certain deadline that would be set up with enough time to have one WW cycle before the year starts.

This would simplify things and make trading a lot easier. This doesn't give me any edge either. I'm not looking for an edge and feel I have 4-5 players I can easily drop on my team. I'm not trying to hustle anybody but with the way the rules are set up it's very hard to trade during the draft. Let me give you guys an example of what I am specifically worried about. Then you guys can call me dumb.

Lets say I have player A rated as the 6th best prospect in the draft but nobody else has him rated there on all the FF websites. I can't trade for a pick where I think he's going to be because maybe someone grabs him before hand. So I sit tight and then during the draft when he's still there at the last pick of the second round I PM the owner of said pick and offer my 2015 1st round pick for his selection. That owner jumps on the deal. I get my guy and he picks up an additional 1st round pick. The way it's set up now none of us will be able to do that.

That sounds like a lot of fun will be missed out on. Some of the most exciting times during our start up draft were when people traded up to pick in front of other teams.

Does that make sense?

Thank God someone gets it.

What did we settle on for waiver order for next year?

I think there was some confusion on this. Some thought waivers went through but some thought they reset and starting going crazy on waivers at the end of the year. I think somebody suggested that it gets randed at the start of this year, but then carries through in future years (which myself and a few others agreed with). Like if you end 2014 with the #1 WW, you start 2015 with the #1 WW.

It was proposed that we randomized the WW order this year and then it would carry over through the off season after that. It wasn't voted on though.

We also need a vote on the number of votes it should take to vote on the number of votes for vote on and agreement of votes for the vote

To set up the basic rules it should take a simply majority. To change existing rules during the off season it should take something like 9 votes.

Ya I'm good with that.