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Old 11-19-2015, 02:52 AM   #1426
AGame18
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

I see things on FD that say New Yorkers can still play for free?

Where are the free contest located?

When I tried to create a free contest it wouldn't let me.
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Old 11-19-2015, 09:05 AM   #1427
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by AGame18 View Post
I see things on FD that say New Yorkers can still play for free?

Where are the free contest located?

When I tried to create a free contest it wouldn't let me.
There are free h2hs. In play them to tinker with lineups before importing them.
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Old 11-19-2015, 10:18 AM   #1428
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

DK is no bargain . If prize of a heads up cash game is $1.80 and you invest $1 you only make 80 cents to the dollar and lose your initial investment. With regular sports betting you would win the same amt and get back your initial investment
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Old 11-19-2015, 10:28 AM   #1429
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

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DK is no bargain . If prize of a heads up cash game is $1.80 and you invest $1 you only make 80 cents to the dollar and lose your initial investment. With regular sports betting you would win the same amt and get back your initial investment
Huh? A baseball game with -105 for one team and -110 for the other wouldn't do that. You choose your investment at -110. This happens with over-unders, props, pick ems. Where it is different is that you're competing against another player's chosen unique lineup instead of a baseline score chosen by the facilitator.

The rake is pretty standard. Unlike poker where the burden is lessened by heads up sit n gos being so fast and therefore allowing for so much more volume to rake, dfs h2hs last the same amount of time as gpps, so the h2hs aren't actually facilitating a heightened volume to lower the rake, I would assume. Could be wrong. I'm not tech savvy enough to know the limits of their services.
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Old 11-19-2015, 10:47 AM   #1430
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Chippa58 View Post
The point was made earlier that if employees of both sites had access to lineup info that its not a reach to believe that such information was being traded.

Waiting to see an article from Legal Sports Report on this issue, but haven't seen one yet. I did find this article though.

http://www.flushdraw.net/news/ny-dfs...action-claims/
I got a good name for you, Len Don Diego

Works for Draftkings now. Worked at Fanduel prior as the main VIP guy. 100% is cozy in both places im sure among others, and it is 100% conceivable information was floating all the time between the sites, and then imo on to the, 'PROs' (gtfo) also etc...

Anyway, he was Fanduel VIP guy, now is at Daftktings, and the VIPs in DFS (lol) are a small subset obviously and the same people on both sites. Make of it what you will but he'd be the first one I would look at if something nefarious may have been going on..

gl
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Old 11-19-2015, 10:54 AM   #1431
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

Sports betting with -110 Pricing.

1) Win. Get back your $110 plus $100 in winnings. Net +$100.
2) Lose. Net -$110.

You are risking $110 to win $100 or -110 odds.

DFS H2H $100+$10 buy-in

1) Win. $200 prize pool after rake. Get back your $110. Win $90. Net +$90.
2) Lose. Net -$110.

You are risking $110 to win $90 or around -122 odds.

Immediately after lock, how often would you be willing to lay -122 that your team will cash? How about with a randomly selected team from a big double-up? You can pick either side but must lay -122 either way.
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Old 11-19-2015, 11:06 AM   #1432
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by fetsie444 View Post
DK is no bargain . If prize of a heads up cash game is $1.80 and you invest $1 you only make 80 cents to the dollar and lose your initial investment. With regular sports betting you would win the same amt and get back your initial investment
With regular sports betting you would be operating in a more efficient market.
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Old 11-19-2015, 11:15 AM   #1433
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by TomG View Post
Sports betting with -110 Pricing.

1) Win. Get back your $110 plus $100 in winnings. Net +$100.
2) Lose. Net -$110.

You are risking $110 to win $100 or -110 odds.

DFS H2H $100+$10 buy-in

1) Win. $200 prize pool after rake. Get back your $110. Win $90. Net +$90.
2) Lose. Net -$110.

You are risking $110 to win $90 or around -122 odds.

Immediately after lock, how often would you be willing to lay -122 that your team will cash? How about with a randomly selected team from a big double-up? You can pick either side but must lay -122 either way.
On FD, you pay $109 to net +$100. At the low stakes, it's $10 to net $8, which, yes, is a big lay. But this is just the standard in DFS which is different from sportsbooks but a standard by a similar token of the house charging a market fee to facilitate the bet.

The double ups are better than 50/50s for this, as the difference between finishing 100th and 113-114th isn't worth the 10% reduction in payout. I probably need to stop calling the 2x games 50/50s though. Bad habit.
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Old 11-19-2015, 01:25 PM   #1434
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

50/50s pay out a higher % of the pot than double ups. 90% vs 88ish%.

there are certainly reasons to play 2x instead (bigger player pool attracts more fish, etc) but thinking the difference in number of payout spots "isn't worth" the 10% reduction is mathematically wrong.
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Old 11-19-2015, 01:30 PM   #1435
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

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50/50s pay out a higher % of the pot than double ups.
This, double ups were a pretty clever way to slightly increase rake.
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Old 11-19-2015, 01:41 PM   #1436
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by TomG View Post
Sports betting with -110 Pricing.

1) Win. Get back your $110 plus $100 in winnings. Net +$100.
2) Lose. Net -$110.

You are risking $110 to win $100 or -110 odds.

DFS H2H $100+$10 buy-in

1) Win. $200 prize pool after rake. Get back your $110. Win $90. Net +$90.
2) Lose. Net -$110.

You are risking $110 to win $90 or around -122 odds.

Immediately after lock, how often would you be willing to lay -122 that your team will cash? How about with a randomly selected team from a big double-up? You can pick either side but must lay -122 either way.

The line makers are very sophisticated. So unless you are the .3 percent who are smarter than the Vegas books you simply have no shot.

DFS is somewhat different as you are competing against other players picks. If multi entry is somewhat restricted and the rake is called at a reasonable level I like my chances in that better.

Draftkings also had some large guarantees on their tournaments which they missed resulting in tournaments where they are actually adding money to the prize pools.

The people who think fantasy sports is a straight substitute for sports gambling are off base. It also keeps fans interested in meaningless blowout ganes which the leagues should enjoy.
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Old 11-19-2015, 02:02 PM   #1437
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by CanadaPete View Post
The line makers are very sophisticated. So unless you are the .3 percent who are smarter than the Vegas books you simply have no shot.

DFS is somewhat different as you are competing against other players picks. If multi entry is somewhat restricted and the rake is called at a reasonable level I like my chances in that better.

Draftkings also had some large guarantees on their tournaments which they missed resulting in tournaments where they are actually adding money to the prize pools.

The people who think fantasy sports is a straight substitute for sports gambling are off base. It also keeps fans interested in meaningless blowout ganes which the leagues should enjoy.
You make a common mistake of thinking that the linemakers are trying somehow to get the line "right" and you have to be smarter than they are to win.

The linemakers only want to set a line so that half the bet money goes one way, and the other half goes the other way.

You are still betting against other people with a "line/price" maker in the middle.
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Old 11-19-2015, 02:04 PM   #1438
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

You make a common mistake of thinking that the linemakers are trying to set a line so that half the bet money goes one way, and the other half goes the other way.

They all just buy lines from a service or copy them from the internet
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Old 11-19-2015, 02:06 PM   #1439
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

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You make a common mistake of thinking that the linemakers are trying to set a line so that half the bet money goes one way, and the other half goes the other way.

They all just buy lines from a service or copy them from the internet
You are confusing "linemakers" with "bookies" IMO.

The services are the ones that employ linemakers.

I think we can move on from this drift.
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Old 11-19-2015, 02:24 PM   #1440
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

Mass AG just set out DFS regulations with a 60 day comment period. Not ideal, but somewhat reasonable.

Some big changes are
---Stricter limits on entries per contest (capped at 3% of entries for larger contests)
---21 age limit
---No late swap allowed (not 100% sure on this, lock time isn't a defined term)
---No scripts
---No college sports DFS
---Beginner only contests and ways to identify "highly experienced users"
---$1000 a month deposit limit with increases subject to asset and income verification

Hard to see sites leaving Massachusetts over this IMO. Its a big state and walking away from somewhat sensible regulations would seem like an unwise move. So guess if you play college sports DFS, enjoy it now.
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Old 11-19-2015, 02:32 PM   #1441
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

Income verification is just a huge LOL
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Old 11-19-2015, 02:34 PM   #1442
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

For sure, definitely don't see the 7/11 doing that on scratch offs any time soon. Games would still be pretty much playable under these rules, which is good.
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Old 11-19-2015, 02:35 PM   #1443
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

Why no college DFS? I've never understood why it's any different or shouldn't be allowed.

Regarding the ways to identify "highly experienced users" it says the following:

Highly-experienced Player: Any DFS player who has

1) entered more than 1,000 contests offered by a single DFSO; or

2) entered more than 250 contests offered by a single DFSO and has prevailed in more than 65% of the total number of such contests; or

3) has won more than three DFS contest Prizes valued at $1,000 or more.

Once a DFS player is classified as a Highly-experienced Player, a player will remain classified as such.

These are pretty obviously really stupid and will have to be redone if they want to accomplish something with them.
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Old 11-19-2015, 02:41 PM   #1444
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by wazzu24 View Post
Why no college DFS? I've never understood why it's any different or shouldn't be allowed.

Regarding the ways to identify "highly experienced users" it says the following:

Highly-experienced Player: Any DFS player who has

1) entered more than 1,000 contests offered by a single DFSO; or

2) entered more than 250 contests offered by a single DFSO and has prevailed in more than 65% of the total number of such contests; or

3) has won more than three DFS contest Prizes valued at $1,000 or more.

Once a DFS player is classified as a Highly-experienced Player, a player will remain classified as such.

These are pretty obviously really stupid and will have to be redone if they want to accomplish something with them.
Looks like a great way to make bumhunting easier
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Old 11-19-2015, 02:41 PM   #1445
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

That sounds like a nightmare for the sites to manage. I predict they just walk away from MA.
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Old 11-19-2015, 02:50 PM   #1446
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

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That sounds like a nightmare for the sites to manage. I predict they just walk away from MA.
Something uniform across states is needed. Imagine if every state follows suit with MA here, but they have different rules. MA's already seem like some arbitrary bull****, so it'll be even worse if every state does this.
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Old 11-19-2015, 02:55 PM   #1447
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

Her logic on College DFS is basically just that the players are student athletes and their performance shouldn't be something that is subject to a DFS game. This proposal is far from the rule of law at this point. The Massachusetts legislature and gaming commission would have input and there's a 60 day period for public input, and also a public hearing will be held.

Fan Duel has already come out with a positive statement about these proposals. Hopefully this is the beginning of the beginning in terms of a regulated form of DFS. What's happening in New York on the other hand appears to be more like the beginning of the end.
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Old 11-19-2015, 03:00 PM   #1448
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

I'm perfectly fine with those rules. As a MA rec player I already qualify without making any changes to my activity.
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Old 11-19-2015, 03:01 PM   #1449
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

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That sounds like a nightmare for the sites to manage. I predict they just walk away from MA.
I think its more likely they try to make modest adjustments to these rules during the comment period, tailor their sites to follow them, and try to use them as a blueprint for other states to follow.

There's nothing terminal to the business model in here and walking away from a state that has been relatively reasonable in trying to regulate the industry seems like a great way to catch more bans.
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Old 11-19-2015, 03:03 PM   #1450
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

I don't have any major objections to those rules.

And I suspect if the sites could get those rules listed in a majority of states and get this over with right now, they'd do it in a heart beat.
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