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Old 11-17-2015, 03:39 PM   #1351
SA16
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by BillyPhelan View Post
I can't remember the last regular season NBA or NHL game I've watched pre DFS.Before DFS I hadn't watched a reg.season MLB game not involving the NY Mets in probably 15 yrs.

AG Scheiderman cited Olivers DFS segment on his twitter page for some reason.
Largely because based on his twitter the guy is a complete troll who likes to gloat to everyone about things he has done.
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Old 11-17-2015, 03:48 PM   #1352
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

FanDuel pulling out of NY for the time being

https://newsroom.fanduel.com/2015/11...n-in-new-york/

In FanDuel’s ongoing effort to fight for fantasy users across New York, we filed for a temporary restraining order yesterday that would allow users to keep playing on our site while the legal case was pending. The court did not issue the TRO but set a hearing for November 25th, ensuring that the legal situation will be promptly resolved.

As a result of that decision, we are temporarily suspending entry in paid contests for people located in New York as of 2:30 pm EST today, Tuesday, November 17th. This is in addition to the restrictions on deposits previously implemented. We believe that this restriction is temporary and we hope to be able to offer our paid contests to New Yorkers again very soon.
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Old 11-17-2015, 04:01 PM   #1353
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

Not getting the TRO isn't a great sign.
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Old 11-17-2015, 04:10 PM   #1354
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

AG didn't request a TRO to suspend operations either.
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Old 11-17-2015, 07:46 PM   #1355
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by wazzu24 View Post
Question since I see people asking why the NY AG isn't also going after season long: How exactly would he even do that? How do you make season long fantasy illegal when millions play it for free anyway, and most leagues are set up either offline or through Paypal. It's not like you can make ESPN stop offering fantasy games. Though if it was even possible for him to attempt to do that it would be the best thing that could happen to us because then the masses would be on our side.
There has to be consideration, and it's quite a stretch to make a case that there is any in unpaid games, although I believe some have tried via "time and effort cost" or some similar legal psychobabble.
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Old 11-18-2015, 12:05 AM   #1356
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Lawnmower Man View Post
There has to be consideration, and it's quite a stretch to make a case that there is any in unpaid games, although I believe some have tried via "time and effort cost" or some similar legal psychobabble.
There are companies that offer season long games where they are effectively taking a rake. Some are very high stakes. It's not a huge business so it's basically under the radar. But some of these companies like CDMsports have been around a long time (20 plus years.)
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Old 11-18-2015, 12:17 AM   #1357
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

Someone just found this on roto grinders, said you can get it from this site:https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/webcivil/FCASSearch although I haven't jumped on yet. If stuff like this is floating around, we're screwed and you have to be kidding me FD for even thinking policies like this are OK.

Quote:
FanDuel Employee DFS Information and Playing Policy
This policy details some of the issues related to FanDuel employees playing in Daily Fantasy Sports (DFS) contests on our competitors’ websites, issues related to information available to our employees, and our policies related to those issues. Please read this document thoroughly, and sign to indicate that you understand and agree to the policies.

Goals: These outline what we’re hoping to accomplish by asking you (and other employees) to agree to this policy.
-Limit ability of employees to exploit “inside information” such as the picks of top users, or the win rates of potential opponents.
-Reassure any concerned site users that employees aren’t exploiting inside info.
-Reduce chance of users questioning ability of employees to exploit inside info against them when they play on other sites.
Principles: These are some of the factors that played into the specific set of rules that we’re asking you to agree to.
-Playing on other sites helps employees do their jobs better
-‘Do no harm’ through play on other sites, so users are less likely to be suspicious or angry.
-Minimize internal flow of exploitable information where possible, so that there are fewer opportunities for exploitation.
-We hire people we trust, so we don’t have any scandals.
-This document should provide clarity to employees on what is and isn’t acceptable.

Risks: These are some of the things that could go wrong if we didn’t have a policy or if the policy wasn’t followed.
-Employees copying user’s picks. Although this is the one that users sometimes ask about, it isn’t much of a risk because the salary structures on each site are completely different. In addition, there are differences in scoring and roster configurations. At best, employees might get an idea of a player to research from a top user’s lineups…but that kind of information is available lots of places.
Employees targeting weak users as opponents on other sites. This seems to concern users less, but is more of a real threat. In fact, in a sense, it is happening already. Information that is known can’t be un known, so it’s important that we put some controls in place to limit it.
-Leakage of personal information (including win rate) of users outside of company.
Internal Controls & Guidelines: These are rules about how you will treat confidential information.
-Only discuss our users’ success and lineups where necessary. The less awareness of this information internally, the less chances for exploitation.
-There is an expectation that employees will only look up info such as user lineups or user win rates where needed to do job.

Rules for Employee Play on Other Sites:
-Never be among the top five players by volume on any one site (based on site leaderboards). Never be among the top ten overall on the RotoGrinders leaderboard. Top players frequently become targets for accusations by other users.
-Never account for more than 2% of entries in any tournament of more than 1,000 entries. Never account for more than 5% of entries in any tournament of more than 100 entries. Players who swamp big tournaments with entries frequently become targets of accusations.
-Don’t be the 2nd person into a head to head contest against the same opponent in more than one contest per day. This rule will greatly limit the ability to exploit information about user performance, and will also limit the likelihood of complaints from users.
-Never use information gained from viewing users’ lineups.
-Seek to avoid playing anyone whose lineups you saw for that time period.
-You must provide FanDuel with a list of your usernames on all sites where you play for real money. We may or may not choose to reveal your employment status and identity to those sites or on other industry sites.

Additional Rules:
-Do not play in real money contests on FanDuel for 12 months after termination of employment with FanDuel, regardless of reason for termination.
I understand and agree to abide by the rules set out in this document.
Printed Name__________________________________________
Electronic signature or initials__________________________________________ _____
Date________________________________________
Below are the sites on which I play Daily Fantasy Sports for real money, and my user names on those sites.
Site User name
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Old 11-18-2015, 12:19 AM   #1358
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

Joe, did anything like this document come up at the meeting you had a few years ago?
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Old 11-18-2015, 12:34 AM   #1359
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

Unreal the balls of these companies to allow that. They had over a billion dollar evaluation each. Now they killed the whole industry.
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Old 11-18-2015, 01:05 AM   #1360
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

So that's from before Ethan, and while it's laughable, it's also more than I would have thought they had in place at the time. I mean the way the sites were just totally blindsided by this did people think they had more than that in place?
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Old 11-18-2015, 01:23 AM   #1361
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

Its really not that surprising except in the sense that its put in writing in this fashion. FD doesn't seem that concerned about inside info being used except as it relates to appearances. Just the fact that they knuckled immediately on the policy of allowing employees to play and later learning that some of the employees were huge whales making big scores...you knew that something was up.

I can't really remember, but didn't the AG inquiry announced about a month ago include interviews with some of the employees of both sites? If it did, I can imagine how intimidating that would be. Who knows what else will be coming out.

This document doesn't even look like it was proofread let alone signed off on by an attorney.
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Old 11-18-2015, 01:54 AM   #1362
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Tall View Post
I cannot disagree. We both know that UIGEA allows all power to the States when it comes to Gaming laws. Plus, my quote you used is out of context, my comment was in regards to the reckless comparisons to online poker and DFS.
Sorry, not intentional, I was making point that these sites are probably not as 100% legal as they want us to believe and thought it fit into what you were responding to but I guess not.
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Old 11-18-2015, 02:02 AM   #1363
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by bosoxx05 View Post
Joe, did anything like this document come up at the meeting you had a few years ago?
Industry play from employees was not addressed at that exact time, may have been mentioned, but most was big-picture/theory for standardizing good practices.
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Old 11-18-2015, 02:14 AM   #1364
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Pokeraddict View Post
Sorry, not intentional, I was making point that these sites are probably not as 100% legal as they want us to believe and thought it fit into what you were responding to but I guess not.
I have authorized and read several legal opinions, including a state by state document from a prominent law firm. I'll check to see what I can share if you are interested.
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Old 11-18-2015, 03:02 AM   #1365
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pokeraddict View Post
Sorry, not intentional, I was making point that these sites are probably not as 100% legal as they want us to believe and thought it fit into what you were responding to but I guess not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Tall View Post
I have authorized and read several legal opinions, including a state by state document from a prominent law firm. I'll check to see what I can share if you are interested.
I would be interested in what you are willing to share. I believe the sites should be legal everywhere (just like I think poker, sports betting and even slots or any other casino game should be legal if that's how people want to spend their own money).

That being said, Fanduel's and Draftking's arguments that they are 100% legal is obviously false despite our desires to believe them, as most states have not actually issued a ruling on it, and as states take a closer look they will rule it to be 100% illegal and FD and DK will be forced to pull out as it turns out it was not 100% legal as advertised (note I do not personally agree with that but that is the current legal landscape, whether you accept it or not). Unfortunately, most states have anti-gambling laws (just like every state has antiquated overly-religious laws written by prudes that we need to work on changing).

Based on current law the sites are almost certain to lose in NY and several other states. There are only 4 states where one can argue DFS is 100% legal right now (where Starsdraft sill serves customers), and even that is not 100%. Every other state is at risk. We need to be lobbying every state to make DFS legal.

Last edited by Shoe; 11-18-2015 at 03:14 AM.
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Old 11-18-2015, 03:37 AM   #1366
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoe View Post
I would be interested in what you are willing to share. I believe the sites should be legal everywhere (just like I think poker, sports betting and even slots or any other casino game should be legal if that's how people want to spend their own money).

That being said, Fanduel's and Draftking's arguments that they are 100% legal is obviously false despite our desires to believe them, as most states have not actually issued a ruling on it, and as states take a closer look they will rule it to be 100% illegal and FD and DK will be forced to pull out as it turns out it was not 100% legal as advertised (note I do not personally agree with that but that is the current legal landscape, whether you accept it or not). Unfortunately, most states have anti-gambling laws (just like every state has antiquated overly-religious laws written by prudes that we need to work on changing).

Based on current law the sites are almost certain to lose in NY and several other states. There are only 4 states where one can argue DFS is 100% legal right now (where Starsdraft sill serves customers), and even that is not 100%. Every other state is at risk. We need to be lobbying every state to make DFS legal.
I think it's important that the politicians know they will lose votes or popularity by going after DFS...the pro DFS has lost the PR war so far among people who don't play.

It's amazing that the commissioner of the NFL will not publicly support DFS and companies like ESPN which have huge advertising deals with the company don't come out and defend the right to play. Instead Scott van pelt bash the industry just so look like real journalists. It's all a joke.
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Old 11-18-2015, 08:16 AM   #1367
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

Post by bosox makes it seem like they could basically see anything they wanted to and were on honor system. That was always my biggest fear as ownership info was never that important but indicated that more was likely possible. If that doc is true it's probably gg and jail time in the cards.
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Old 11-18-2015, 08:54 AM   #1368
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

NVM Found it

Last edited by Zimmer4141; 11-18-2015 at 08:59 AM.
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Old 11-18-2015, 09:00 AM   #1369
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

Is there, or anyone interested in an every day-type draft kings league? we can add and tally scores ourselves etc
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Old 11-18-2015, 09:22 AM   #1370
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

When I went to sleep last night there was a lengthy thread on RG which included the FD employee play policy, along with many posts from ordinary players who were shocked and appalled. This morning I see no evidence of that thread.
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Old 11-18-2015, 09:24 AM   #1371
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

The only thread I see discussing it is the one about AG Schneiderman shutting them down in NY. Was there a longer thread just dedicated to the FD Employee Policy?
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Old 11-18-2015, 09:28 AM   #1372
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Tall View Post
I have authorized and read several legal opinions, including a state by state document from a prominent law firm. I'll check to see what I can share if you are interested.
I'd be interested for sure.
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Old 11-18-2015, 09:29 AM   #1373
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Zimmer4141 View Post
The only thread I see discussing it is the one about AG Schneiderman shutting them down in NY. Was there a longer thread just dedicated to the FD Employee Policy?
It wasn't just dedicated to the FD employee policy. But it was a much longer thread, like 70+ pages. I think it was the original thread that happened when the controversy was first happening. The last three or so pages were reacting to the FD policy.
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Old 11-18-2015, 09:29 AM   #1374
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by CanadaPete View Post
I think it's important that the politicians know they will lose votes or popularity by going after DFS
They would arguably get a net gain I'm votes let alone care about whatever meaningless small loss possibly comes with it. They care much more about that casino lobby money.
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Old 11-18-2015, 09:44 AM   #1375
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

The amount of votes/popularity they lose is pretty much nothing.

How many people cared when UIGEA passed and it became way harder to sports bet? How many people cared when black friday went down?

Now throw in the fact that people who don't play despise these companies for all the commercials and they can go away very easily.

In the meantime, we play Mark Sanchez this weekend and hope it isn't the last hurrah.
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