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Old 11-11-2015, 04:29 PM   #1176
lerz
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by nutshot2 View Post
Where are you seeing this
http://www.legalsportsreport.com/613...sites-exit-ny/

Major payment processor pulling the plug on NY DFS sites. PayPal next?
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Old 11-11-2015, 05:18 PM   #1177
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

That explains all the verification notices on FanDuel.

Id probably say the sites are -300 to pull out of NY within the next week or so while they fight this, but we'll see.
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Old 11-11-2015, 06:18 PM   #1178
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

This stuff Mike is talking about is painful. Legit has no idea what he's talking about for most of it. Just the usual stuff "These people have 500 entries so they're guaranteed to win and nobody else has a chance!"
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Old 11-11-2015, 06:22 PM   #1179
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

If having 500 entries is a way to guarantee making a profit then why don't the people who are losing just enter the contest 500 times?
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Old 11-11-2015, 06:30 PM   #1180
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

He's like the guys on RG who think people win by covering "All the combinations"
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Old 11-11-2015, 06:31 PM   #1181
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

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This stuff Mike is talking about is painful. Legit has no idea what he's talking about for most of it. Just the usual stuff "These people have 500 entries so they're guaranteed to win and nobody else has a chance!"
God it's infuriating,''can't keep children out'' really,lock up your credit card mom and dad and junior can't play,is it that f**king hard.''Players will alter their play to help family members'' I can definitely see Tom Brady calling audibles to help Giselle knock down the milly,Christ my head hurts.
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Old 11-11-2015, 06:36 PM   #1182
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

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This stuff Mike is talking about is painful. Legit has no idea what he's talking about for most of it. Just the usual stuff "These people have 500 entries so they're guaranteed to win and nobody else has a chance!"
Yeah. I guess the FD CEO cancelled. Francesa was definitely painful to listen to.

Does anyone know which court has jurisdiction over this issue? I can imagine the sites making a good enough argument to get an injunction preventing the cease and desist order from taking effect as scheduled. But what happens after that?
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Old 11-11-2015, 06:39 PM   #1183
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

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It is obviously inarguable that NFL players have skills that make them professional athletes. It is also inarguable that those skills are what lead to yards, touchdowns, etc. The more talented a player (and his teammates) the more likely they are to score touchdowns and get yards. There is no meaningful amount of chance in this or we'd all have a shot to be an NFL player. If you let the Pats play a u10 football team they would score every single play because they have superior skill.

When picking players for a DFS roster all you are doing is using a different skill to identify which players will demonstrate their skills in more proficiently in the coming game. It isn't luck that allows these players to pickup yards and touchdowns. A DFS player picking these players is just someone utilizing the powers of observation and statistics to determine which players will shine in a given day/week.
EVERY single thing you say applies equally to sportsbetting.

It apparently is "gambling" in New York to risk something on the outcome of a future event over which the bettor has no control ...

Skill matters in a proper sense when it affects the outcome. No amount of skill in building a fantasy team affects the outcome of the future contingent events, i.e. player performances, upon which a wager is being placed.

Skillful picking of sports-bets, even if you get to design your own prop bets, and even do it better than thte other contest enries , is still dependent upon future contingent events out of the DFS player's control.

I would love for the answer to be different and hope FD stays the course and successfully litigates this in favor of sportsbetting being a skill, as opposed to dependent upon an outcome over which a bettor has no control.
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Old 11-11-2015, 06:42 PM   #1184
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

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but the bet is a skill based bet which the law allows. The law is written to talk about material levels of chance. It doesn't matter whether or not you have any control over it.
What law is that ? (Not that I want you to be wrong, I just want to know what law legalizes operating a business in NY that accepts sports bet because they are "skill-based")
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Old 11-11-2015, 06:47 PM   #1185
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

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This stuff Mike is talking about is painful. Legit has no idea what he's talking about for most of it. Just the usual stuff "These people have 500 entries so they're guaranteed to win and nobody else has a chance!"
When they say 1% of the players win all the money, that doesn't prove it's a skill game. If a few guys stack the deck, they are increasing the amount of chance involved for the average player. 1 person entering 500 lineups has a better chance than 1 person entering 1 lineup because they can cover more combinations. That doesn't guarantee a win, it just improves your chances substantially. If you do not understand that, you should play 1 lineup against my 500. The loser has to match the amount the winner earns from their lineup/s.
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Old 11-11-2015, 06:48 PM   #1186
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

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What law is that ? (Not that I want you to be wrong, I just want to know what law legalizes operating a business in NY that accepts sports bet because they are "skill-based")
UIGEA. If NY state has more restrictive laws than UIGEA then why are they only enforcing them now? How was DFS not illegal years ago? The industry has been around for years now.
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Old 11-11-2015, 06:49 PM   #1187
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

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When they say 1% of the players win all the money, that doesn't prove it's a skill game. If a few guys stack the deck, they are increasing the amount of chance involved for the average player. 1 person entering 500 lineups has a better chance than 1 person entering 1 lineup because they can cover more combinations. That doesn't guarantee a win, it just improves your chances substantially. If you do not understand that, you should play 1 lineup against my 500. The loser has to match the amount the winner earns from their lineup/s.
Does this mean that if your 500 lineups lose $3500 and my 1 lineup loses $20 you owe me $3480 or are you just going to pretend that 500 lineups cost the same amount as 1 lineup when entered into the same gpp?
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Old 11-11-2015, 06:52 PM   #1188
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by lerz View Post
When they say 1% of the players win all the money, that doesn't prove it's a skill game. If a few guys stack the deck, they are increasing the amount of chance involved for the average player. 1 person entering 500 lineups has a better chance than 1 person entering 1 lineup because they can cover more combinations. That doesn't guarantee a win, it just improves your chances substantially. If you do not understand that, you should play 1 lineup against my 500. The loser has to match the amount the winner earns from their lineup/s.
are you aware that it costs 500x as much to enter 500 lineups as it does one lineup?
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Old 11-11-2015, 06:53 PM   #1189
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by lerz View Post
When they say 1% of the players win all the money, that doesn't prove it's a skill game. If a few guys stack the deck, they are increasing the amount of chance involved for the average player. 1 person entering 500 lineups has a better chance than 1 person entering 1 lineup because they can cover more combinations. That doesn't guarantee a win, it just improves your chances substantially. If you do not understand that, you should play 1 lineup against my 500. The loser has to match the amount the winner earns from their lineup/s.
Incorrect.
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Old 11-11-2015, 07:13 PM   #1190
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

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are you aware that it costs 500x as much to enter 500 lineups as it does one lineup?
Are you aware that depends on the entry fee's?
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Old 11-11-2015, 07:17 PM   #1191
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

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Are you aware that depends on the entry fee's?
can't tell if seriou's.
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Old 11-11-2015, 07:23 PM   #1192
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

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Does this mean that if your 500 lineups lose $3500 and my 1 lineup loses $20 you owe me $3480 or are you just going to pretend that 500 lineups cost the same amount as 1 lineup when entered into the same gpp?
The entry fee's are sunk upfront, it's who wins back more. 1 lineup vs 500 lineups.

I wouldn't want to play Hold'em if my opponent got dealt 5 sets of pocket cards to my 1, and got to play which ever hit the board the best, would you?
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Old 11-11-2015, 07:30 PM   #1193
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

wow
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Old 11-11-2015, 07:39 PM   #1194
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by lerz View Post
The entry fee's are sunk upfront, it's who wins back more. 1 lineup vs 500 lineups.

I wouldn't want to play Hold'em if my opponent got dealt 5 sets of pocket cards to my 1, and got to play which ever hit the board the best, would you?
Here's a better experiment IMO. Let's say 201 players with equal ROI's are invited to play in a 400 player GPP. One player has 200 entries. The other 200 players have one entry each. Which side wins more money? I can see a slight advantage for the multi-entry player because he's able to organize his lineups in a strategic fashion. Meantime, the other 200 players are just throwing darts.
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Old 11-11-2015, 07:48 PM   #1195
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

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The entry fee's are sunk upfront, it's who wins back more. 1 lineup vs 500 lineups.

I wouldn't want to play Hold'em if my opponent got dealt 5 sets of pocket cards to my 1, and got to play which ever hit the board the best, would you?
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Old 11-11-2015, 07:48 PM   #1196
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

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CDL,

A DFS player is making a bet on an outcome of something they have no control over, your argument is invalid. It's very clearly gambling.
They control what players are in their lineup, so yes they do have control. DFS is not a slot machine.
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Old 11-11-2015, 07:53 PM   #1197
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

so if we bet on the flip of a coin and i let you call heads or tails, would you say thats not gambling because you have control over which side you picked?

dfs is very obviously gambling by any definition while also being a game of skill. it is impossible to only be one.
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Old 11-11-2015, 07:56 PM   #1198
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

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They control what players are in their lineup, so yes they do have control. DFS is not a slot machine.
Players have control over which slot machine they play.
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Old 11-11-2015, 07:56 PM   #1199
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

It's clearly not like a slot machine but it's clearly gambling. Agreed that it's completely ridiculousness for a government to outlaw gambling, especially when they permit certain truly harmful/guaranteed -EV gambling, but it's still gambling.
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Old 11-11-2015, 07:58 PM   #1200
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

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Players have control over which slot machine they play.
And these slot machines pay out at different rates.
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