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Old 11-11-2015, 12:25 AM   #1126
CanadaPete
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Chippa58 View Post
The NY Times article says the cease and desist order applies just to FD and DK. If its DFS being attacked on the skill vs gambling argument, then why aren't all the other sites getting the same letter from the AG? I don't know of course, but I just think its possible that some serious shenanigans could have happened and maybe that's at least partially what this is about.
So we can still play daily fantasy on yahoo??

I think draftkings and fanduel will fight in court over this in New York. Nothing really to lose. Might discourage other state AGs from taking the same action.
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Old 11-11-2015, 12:28 AM   #1127
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

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If they do not back down, will there offices get raided and shuttered? Will they be able to remain headquartered in NY if they cannot have NY users?
I would assume they will try to get a ruling that allows them to continue to operate until a hearing is held. If they lose they will block New York customers.
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Old 11-11-2015, 12:33 AM   #1128
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

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He didn't make dfs illegal, he's enforcing laws already on the books
then why isn't he shutting down season long leagues too?
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Old 11-11-2015, 12:45 AM   #1129
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

Well time for DK/FD to get out the grease.The NY pol is the most greaseable,schmoozable,bribeable animal on earth.Is it possible DK/FD haven't made connections or inquiries with pro DFS pols?
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Old 11-11-2015, 12:58 AM   #1130
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

reminds me of goodfellas

...it's the last time that... guys like us were ever given anything that ****ing valuable again.

I'm stunned that they had an elephant-sized precedent staring them in the face, and they did the exact same dumbass thing. But I guess I shouldn't be. that's people. or greed.
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Old 11-11-2015, 01:01 AM   #1131
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

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then why isn't he shutting down season long leagues too?
The attorney general’s office said daily fantasy sports “appears to be creating the same public health and economic problems associated with gambling.” The National Council on Problem Gambling says it has received reports of “severe gambling problems” in some people who play daily fantasy sports, while noting that seasonal competitions with minimal prizes “offer little risk.”

This self serving paragraph from the NYT article mentions season long.Also ''some'' DFS players have severe gambling problems.Exactly how many is some? Jeeeezus.
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Old 11-11-2015, 01:24 AM   #1132
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

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The attorney general’s office said daily fantasy sports “appears to be creating the same public health and economic problems associated with gambling.” The National Council on Problem Gambling says it has received reports of “severe gambling problems” in some people who play daily fantasy sports, while noting that seasonal competitions with minimal prizes “offer little risk.”

This self serving paragraph from the NYT article mentions season long.Also ''some'' DFS players have severe gambling problems.Exactly how many is some? Jeeeezus.
Don't quite understand how he can pick and choose how to enforce the law? There are large national season long fantasy competitions that accept players from New York. Obviously, these companies have been violating his interpretation of the law also.

Its doubtful these sites are creating new gambling addicts. If someone has a gambling addiction they can find a casino and they always have the 40 percent rake lottery.
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Old 11-11-2015, 01:41 AM   #1133
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

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Its doubtful these sites are creating new gambling addicts. If someone has a gambling addiction they can find a casino and they always have the 40 percent rake lottery.
More like 50 percent for the lottery, and even more when you consider that the vast majority of the money is funneled into the mega prizes and not equally divided among those who get 3 or 4 numbers right.

I'd favor a law requiring people to present IDs and lottery player's cards when they buy their tickets. Set a limit of ten bucks a week or whatever is good for society. The hypocrisy is laughable.

All that said, FD and DK couldn't have done a worse job in their advertising, PR and internal practices. Maybe if this goes to court we'll at least get a more detailed explanation of exactly what, if anything, the AG's investigation uncovered. He could have issued the same opinion on the legality of the game on day one, simply by understanding the mechanics of it...as it relates to "gambling".
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Old 11-11-2015, 02:23 AM   #1134
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

The rake on the NY lottery pick 5 is 90% on 1st.pl.60% on 2nd and 75% for 3rd. lol.
Save me Eric save me.
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Old 11-11-2015, 04:37 AM   #1135
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Chippa58 View Post
The NY Times article says the cease and desist order applies just to FD and DK. If its DFS being attacked on the skill vs gambling argument, then why aren't all the other sites getting the same letter from the AG? I don't know of course, but I just think its possible that some serious shenanigans could have happened and maybe that's at least partially what this is about.
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So we can still play daily fantasy on yahoo??
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Originally Posted by CalledDownLight View Post
then why isn't he shutting down season long leagues too?
I'm not claiming the AG is eternally correct or is great at his job or whatever, but that's not how these kinds of things work. I think you guys are still imagining the AG just 'made a law.'

He's enforcing it. Maybe in a way we all disagree with it, but that's not really the issue with the posts quoted here.

So to be clear: no new law was made. The AG is saying DK and FD are violating the current law.

Presumably although unspoken is that other operators in the space are also violating the law but I suppose we can imagine that is to be determined. The same with season long leagues.

When the Attorney General indicts Lucky Luciano for racketeering, that doesn't mean John Gotti is engaged in legal business by implication of the fact that the Attorney General didn't haul away or name Gotti in a RICO indictment of Luciano. It also doesn't mean the AG acted hypocritically by not indicting Jimmy Hoffa for a different kind of potential racketeering. For the very near future, it's going to be up to the other operators like Yahoo to determine how much they think the AG is claiming DFS or fantasy writ large (including season long leagues) are gambling versus something very specific about DK/FD's model which is raising law enforcement scrutiny. I assume that over time the AG position will be clarified. It's possible there is something uniquely criminal about DK/FD that the AG has uncovered (Chippa58's post). More likely is the glut of ads from DK/FD have made them the most visible players and so they are raising the hackles of the AG whereas Yahoo/CBS/StarsDraft et al are flying under their radar.

But in the end, at this moment, it's unknown how this impacts the other players and the current information is not enough to make strong implications or declare grand hypocrisy either way ("what about the lottery? notwithstanding). To reiterate: the AG may be a complete clown. But a letter to some people operating that the AG believes are operating criminally to stop is not an implication all potential criminals have been identified or that similar related activity is necessarily legal or illegal.

Last edited by DVaut1; 11-11-2015 at 04:52 AM.
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Old 11-11-2015, 07:33 AM   #1136
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by CanadaPete View Post
Don't quite understand how he can pick and choose how to enforce the law? There are large national season long fantasy competitions that accept players from New York. Obviously, these companies have been violating his interpretation of the law also.

Its doubtful these sites are creating new gambling addicts. If someone has a gambling addiction they can find a casino and they always have the 40 percent rake lottery.
Here is the AG Letter to Fan Duel, which addresses the "traditional" v. daily fantasy sports issue, among others:

https://assets.documentcloud.org/doc...015-signed.pdf

Apparently, also, the working definition of gambling gives few points to "skill" arguments, so long as the outcome wagered upon is "out of the control" of the bettor. With all due respect to "skill" advocates, picking a DFS line-up does not affect the outcome of the underlying performances of the athletes playing the games. Somebody still has to take the field and play .... Skillful betting is still sports gambling, under both Nevada and, now, New York laws.
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Old 11-11-2015, 09:52 AM   #1137
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Gzesh View Post
Here is the AG Letter to Fan Duel, which addresses the "traditional" v. daily fantasy sports issue, among others:

https://assets.documentcloud.org/doc...015-signed.pdf

Apparently, also, the working definition of gambling gives few points to "skill" arguments, so long as the outcome wagered upon is "out of the control" of the bettor. With all due respect to "skill" advocates, picking a DFS line-up does not affect the outcome of the underlying performances of the athletes playing the games. Somebody still has to take the field and play .... Skillful betting is still sports gambling, under both Nevada and, now, New York laws.

well the dominoes continue to fall. no way DFS stays in current form.

AG seems to be going down a road of criminal charges as well. I wonder if that's just chest beating or if they actually plan to charge FD/DK execs with a crime?

If so, would that not include major owners, like MLB, various pro team owners, etc etc.
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Old 11-11-2015, 10:02 AM   #1138
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

Once an order is handed down it cannot be reversed. You knew it was coming cause you are talking about a state let along a city that is totally against legalizing gambling building casinos etc. Good thing i still reside iin NJ because i was this close to moving back to NY. Please people dont waste your time trying to lobby or file petitions which i have seen on twitter. Once its down its a done deal I just hope NJ isn't the next victim because Christie doesnt want DFS in the state either.
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Old 11-11-2015, 10:06 AM   #1139
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

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I would assume they will try to get a ruling that allows them to continue to operate until a hearing is held. If they lose they will block New York customers.
I wonder if losing NY might give the fish an edge? I mean after all NY population wise is no Bismark ND right ? LOL
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Old 11-11-2015, 10:16 AM   #1140
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

The letter to FD, and a very similar one that I just saw to DK shed quite a bit of light. Now I see that the NY lottery, and horse racing and casinos are all considered gambling, but all have exemptions carved out in the NY state constitution. So they're kind of irrelevant to the conversation.

I would assume that DK and FD will challenge the AG's order and seek an injunction to continue operating as they have, while possibly preparing the skill vs gambling argument for a future court hearing. If the DFS sites don't win there, then would it require another constitutional amendment to get back in business? If so, the awful marketing which has turned off a large majority of the otherwise disinterested public will come back to bite them in the ass.
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Old 11-11-2015, 10:43 AM   #1141
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

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Once an order is handed down it cannot be reversed. You knew it was coming cause you are talking about a state let along a city that is totally against legalizing gambling building casinos etc. Good thing i still reside iin NJ because i was this close to moving back to NY. Please people dont waste your time trying to lobby or file petitions which i have seen on twitter. Once its down its a done deal I just hope NJ isn't the next victim because Christie doesnt want DFS in the state either.
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.DFS was made legal in NJ on Christie's watch.NY is chock full of state sanctioned gambling.Please do a minimum amount of research before you post any more gibberish.
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Old 11-11-2015, 11:02 AM   #1142
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

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You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.DFS was made legal in NJ on Christie's watch.NY is chock full of state sanctioned gambling.Please do a minimum amount of research before you post any more gibberish.
Maybe its you that needs to get your facts straight before you babble on like an expert Watch the video GENUIUS!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMw5GSd1bw0
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Old 11-11-2015, 11:15 AM   #1143
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Gzesh View Post
Here is the AG Letter to Fan Duel, which addresses the "traditional" v. daily fantasy sports issue, among others:

https://assets.documentcloud.org/doc...015-signed.pdf

Apparently, also, the working definition of gambling gives few points to "skill" arguments, so long as the outcome wagered upon is "out of the control" of the bettor. With all due respect to "skill" advocates, picking a DFS line-up does not affect the outcome of the underlying performances of the athletes playing the games. Somebody still has to take the field and play .... Skillful betting is still sports gambling, under both Nevada and, now, New York laws.
Considering there is virtually no activity or endeavor in life that doesn't have some degree of chance attached to it,I don't see how the sites prevail.By NY's standard everything is gambling.And kudos Eric for holding your decision until after election day has passed.Why give the people a chance to speak when you don't have to.Ain't democracy grand.
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Old 11-11-2015, 11:34 AM   #1144
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

Daily Lottery in NY is not considered in their eyes a form of "addictive gambling"
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Old 11-11-2015, 11:36 AM   #1145
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

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Maybe its you that needs to get your facts straight before you babble on like an expert Watch the video GENUIUS!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMw5GSd1bw0
And that video says what?
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Old 11-11-2015, 11:38 AM   #1146
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

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And that video says what?
It is just one video of many in which he denounces any form of gambling in the state of NJ. Either that or the man is schizo because i could swear that in the past he was all in for legalizing sports betting in Atlantic City casinos Go figure
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Old 11-11-2015, 11:41 AM   #1147
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

does anyone know if the NY ban will be shutting down smaller DFS sites too like Yahoo or Fantasy Aces or any other smaller ones ?
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Old 11-11-2015, 12:23 PM   #1148
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

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It is just one video of many in which he denounces any form of gambling in the state of NJ. Either that or the man is schizo because i could swear that in the past he was all in for legalizing sports betting in Atlantic City casinos Go figure
The only thing he denounces is the stupid ff question.Is english your primary language? No need to reply I'm done with this.
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Old 11-11-2015, 12:26 PM   #1149
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

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does anyone know if the NY ban will be shutting down smaller DFS sites too like Yahoo or Fantasy Aces or any other smaller ones ?
I'm speculating,but my guess is they will voluntarily withdraw from NY.
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Old 11-11-2015, 12:39 PM   #1150
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Re: DFS Industry Discussion Thread

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Considering there is virtually no activity or endeavor in life that doesn't have some degree of chance attached to it,I don't see how the sites prevail.By NY's standard everything is gambling.And kudos Eric for holding your decision until after election day has passed.Why give the people a chance to speak when you don't have to.Ain't democracy grand.
It seems like the AG leaves the door open by not lumping season-long fantasy sports into the same category as DFS.

He also isn't going after all skill games. In bowling tournaments for example, the players will pay way more than they would for a normal game of bowling. The over-payments go into a prize pool. The winners then get paid and the losers get nothing. The bowling center and tournament organizers both take a cut from the initial payment to cover their own expenses and make a profit. One could argue that there is a chance element in bowling tournaments and other skill games.

The DFS sites have significant overhead to maintain a staff and their servers, so its only a portion of the rake that goes to profit, and my understanding is that the sites aren't really showing much, if anything, in the way of profits at this point.

I guess my point is that I can see room for negotiation, and alteration of the current format, along with regulation, enough to allow DFS to be lumped into the skill game category. Whether that's going to happen remains to be seen.
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