DFS Industry Discussion Thread - Page 45 - Fantasy Sports -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

If the court upheld the AG then DFS could face criminal liability for taking bets in the interim. If a cop turns on his sirens to pull you over, you shouldn't ignore it and drive to the courthouse to immediately argue your side of the case.

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11-10-2015 , 08:01 PM

#1102

Wooders0n

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 24,820

Quote:

Originally Posted by DVaut1

It's expensive to take on law enforcement. And usually fails. It would presumably be cheaper to lobby state legislatures. Or not have their industry look like a giant fly by night scam.

I'd think paying lawyers would be better financially than not existing.

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11-10-2015 , 08:02 PM

#1103

LetsGambool

banned

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 26,568

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wooders0n

Why should they cease now instead of waiting for the judge? What downside is there to waiting?

Prosecution and criminal penalties.

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I'd think paying lawyers would be better financially than not existing

They might have to fight this, but they are probably dogs given state law. What I don't understand is how season long fantasy could still be legal, that seems like a political calculation but not sure it holds up.

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11-10-2015 , 08:04 PM

#1104

TomG

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 4,294

New York State Penal Code 225.00: "Contest of chance" means any contest, game, gaming scheme or gaming device in which the outcome depends in a material degree upon an element of chance, notwithstanding that skill of the contestants may also be a factor therein.

DFS contests pretty clearly contain at least a "material degree" of chance categorizing them as a game of chance and not skill under NY State Law.

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11-10-2015 , 08:04 PM

#1105

cb92

centurion

Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 145

Quote:

DraftKings tells me it is not leaving the New York market and plans to fight today's ruling by the attorney general.

https://twitter.com/DavidPurdum/stat...31538855428096

Well alright

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11-10-2015 , 08:07 PM

#1106

LetsGambool

banned

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 26,568

Big enough state to bet the company I guess.

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11-10-2015 , 08:10 PM

#1107

Chippa58

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 2,259

I find it interesting that the AG just didn't say that DFS is gambling and therefore against existing law. What should we infer when he calls it a "massive scheme to fleece sports fans"? I'm wondering if he found something more sinister involving data and computer manipulation. That doesn't seem to be addressed in a definitive way in the story. You could call the lottery a massive scheme to fleece people as well.

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11-10-2015 , 08:16 PM

#1108

dkgojackets

DKGOAT

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 86,123

I infer that he is a politician exaggerating for impact

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11-10-2015 , 08:22 PM

#1109

BillyPhelan

grinder

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 630

F**K YOU NYAG..............just F**K YOU.Who were the aggrieved parties who petitioned your office to ban DFS.You were a solution looking for a problem,no one asked you.I'm sure you just want to beat Preet (who stole your thunder) to the punch, so you can preen and grandstand.Thanks for ''protecting'' me.Upstate is an economic wasteland and NYC is sliding back into the toilet while you Andy and Comrade Bill D.fiddle.The non victims of DFS are safe and all I can say is F**K YOU! Eric...........F**K YOU!.

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11-10-2015 , 09:35 PM

#1110

ALLTheCookies

half a brain

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 23,373

Quote:

“It is clear that DraftKings and FanDuel are the leaders of a massive, multibillion-dollar scheme intended to evade the law and fleece sports fans across the country,” Mr. Schneiderman said, adding, “Today we have sent a clear message: not in New York, and not on my watch.”

This has some truth. If Negreanu were able to play EVERY table all at once(like the "pros") would you still have played online poker?

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11-10-2015 , 09:46 PM

#1111

FoldNow13

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 597

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALLTheCookies

This has some truth. If Negreanu were able to play EVERY table all at once(like the "pros") would you still have played online poker?

And also having to beat them hundreds of times in the same tournament...

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11-10-2015 , 09:53 PM

#1112

TheNonPareil

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 2,035

I thought it might help us to have the idiot general public sports fans on our side this time unlike poker. More people etc.

But the idiots are just making it worse IMO. They think it's rigged too.

Sigh, was fun while it lasted. I guess I should just leave this communist country. The hypocrisy is going to give me a stroke.

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11-10-2015 , 09:57 PM

#1113

LetsGambool

banned

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 26,568

A CA assemblyman has sent a letter to the CA AG asking for Draft Kings to be shutdown in CA.

this is a proven enough business model that casinos and states will get into the business sooner rather than later IMO but with lotto like rakes

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11-10-2015 , 10:19 PM

#1114

TheNonPareil

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 2,035

https://newsroom.fanduel.com/2015/11...nerals-letter/

Fanduels response.

Sites not backing down.

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11-10-2015 , 10:30 PM

#1115

MediocrePlayer2.0

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 9,205

Quote:

Originally Posted by LetsGambool

A CA assemblyman has sent a letter to the CA AG asking for Draft Kings to be shutdown in CA.

this is a proven enough business model that casinos and states will get into the business sooner rather than later IMO but with lotto like rakes

we have had the provincial Lotto have parlay gambling for 25 years and the past maybe 10-15 years it's extended to player props, player pools, etc where the payouts are partially determined by how much money wagered and the % of players picked, so kind of a simplistic version of dfs.

And yeah the rake is something like 30-35% for the Lotto, it's obviously lol unplayable at that high of a rake.

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11-10-2015 , 10:48 PM

#1116

lerz

centurion

Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 167

It would be shocking to see FD/DK win this fight, if they even fight this at all. They will have to prove that chance only has a marginal impact on the outcome of each DFS contest. It's obvious that chance plays a material role in the outcome of the contests because on any given day anything can happen. In that way it's ironic, the fundamental thing that makes DFS interesting and fun is also the fundamental flaw that makes DFS gambling. Take out the daily part and it's legal but not as fun or profitable.

Zynga DFS or subscription based DFS coming soon

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11-10-2015 , 10:49 PM

#1117

Yuv

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 4,940

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheNonPareil

https://newsroom.fanduel.com/2015/11...nerals-letter/

Fanduels response.

Sites not backing down.

I don't see where they say that they're not backing down. They don't specify at all what their plans are.

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11-10-2015 , 10:51 PM

#1118

lerz

centurion

Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 167

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheNonPareil

https://newsroom.fanduel.com/2015/11...nerals-letter/

Fanduels response.

Sites not backing down.

If they do not back down, will there offices get raided and shuttered? Will they be able to remain headquartered in NY if they cannot have NY users?

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11-10-2015 , 11:26 PM

#1119

TheNonPareil

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 2,035

Well you can still play on there if
You are from New York correct?

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11-10-2015 , 11:27 PM

#1120

Lattimer

I is smart

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 15,463

At the moment yes.

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11-10-2015 , 11:35 PM

#1121

TheNonPareil

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 2,035

I mean it sounds like the law has DFS by the balls in New York, Florida, and others.

So really this is over unless we can get a DFS carve out like lottery and horse racing.

No idea the odds of that happening but based on my experience in this country, we are looking at 0%.

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11-10-2015 , 11:37 PM

#1122

BillyPhelan

grinder

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 630

''Zynga DFS or subscription based DFS coming soon''

Woohoo! t-shirts.

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11-11-2015 , 12:04 AM

#1123

Chippa58

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 2,259

The NY Times article says the cease and desist order applies just to FD and DK. If its DFS being attacked on the skill vs gambling argument, then why aren't all the other sites getting the same letter from the AG? I don't know of course, but I just think its possible that some serious shenanigans could have happened and maybe that's at least partially what this is about.

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11-11-2015 , 12:05 AM

#1124

BillyPhelan

grinder

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 630

Quote:

Originally Posted by lerz

If they do not back down, will there offices get raided and shuttered? Will they be able to remain headquartered in NY if they cannot have NY users?

What is the power of a C&D letter? Can AG snap his fingers and make DFS illegal? idk.Nevada had a process,hearings a real investigation not some self righteous decree fueled by misinformation and hysteria.Does the fact that DFS has operated in the open for so long without government interference help it's claims of legality?