DFS Industry Discussion Thread

[ReliableSource]

Is there anybody flooding 1,000s of entries in a Mlb gpp with 5 or less unique lineups?

I think we found one solution.

[TasteIsKing9]

So robins was on rg today answering a few Qs and one really stood out when answering if DK pros can still play.
He made the comparison that now they are going to be called DK analysts. However he compared them to Matthew Berry of ESPN. However one thing is Berry can't win any ESPN prizes of any sorts so why can DK guys.

Now again, idc if they play but that analogy is not going to hold if one of these guys wins the live final. They either are ambassadors/analysts etc or they aren't

[Priptonite]

Probably wasn't the best analogy, but he made sure to make it clear that they do not have any access to any DK data.

[BillyPhelan]

All the major race tracks employ handicappers to give advice and picks.They would lose respect from the patrons if they DIDN'T bet their own selections.

[suzzer99]

Originally Posted by the_woat

JFC you're an idiot. Let's pool money with randoms on the internet to fire a bunch of ****ty lineups in a top-heavy gpp and worry about little details like escrow and taxes later. What could go wrong? No wonder you're living paycheck to paycheck on a six figure salary.

ZOMG I might looz $100 for the positive utility of sweating a bunch of FF lineups every week (on a site where half the regular posters get together in person on a regular basis). Or I might even win money. The horror.

Apropos sn btw.

[ZBTHorton]

Originally Posted by PeteBlow

Caveat: I'm from the UK and therefore don't have extensive knowledge of DFS and maybe this idea has been mentioned before or is possibly in action already.

Regarding DFS and the fact that the majority of money is being won by mass entry pros.
As was mentioned in the new Pokercast, there is a concern that casual, single entry, players basically have no shot and this could bring into question the sustainability of the game for casual players.

Years ago I used to be a high ranking player at Golden Tee in the UK. When the monthly tournament with prizes started, it became clear that the people who won the tournaments were those who shoveled coins in and played multiple entries (mainly on days when the course conditions were favorable).

To combat this the structure was changed so players would move into different divisions based on historic performance. After 3/4 months of play, the divisions were provisionally set and, not surprisingly, the high volume players were in Gold, medium in Silver and the remainder (mainly single bullet players) were Bronze, Each division had a separate prize pool with Gold having the largest pool.(From memory, the split was approx 60/40/20). There was relegation and promotion so if you didn't cash (or indeed enter) for a few months you would drop a division.

All players were effectively playing the same game but the single bullet players weren't volumed out of the prize money and as a result they weren't turned off from the game.

Could this system transfer well to DFS?
Not saying all tournaments need to be like this and the headline tournaments could still be 'open' events.

Originally Posted by Exitonly

Sounds like a good idea to me atm. All the games that currently exist could still exist just as 'Open field' events, and there could be a tiered system in addition, with smaller contests obviously, but only competing against players that play in your buyin range.

If you're going to put people into categories like this, you're going to have to adjust the rake eventually too.

I personally think the rake in DFS is absolutely insane. It's probably okay for full slate NFL/MLB/NBA but when you're talking about 2 game NBA nights or late game NFL days or Thanksgiving Day lineups or whatever...it's insane.

[PeteBlow]

Originally Posted by ZBTHorton

If you're going to put people into categories like this, you're going to have to adjust the rake eventually too.

I personally think the rake in DFS is absolutely insane. It's probably okay for full slate NFL/MLB/NBA but when you're talking about 2 game NBA nights or late game NFL days or Thanksgiving Day lineups or whatever...it's insane.

I understand what you're saying (or maybe I don't), but if you're not competing against the pros in the lower tiers doesn't the greater chance of cashing offset that?
Additionally, it's hard/impossible to justify differing rake levels for different players.

...or do you mean rake should be adjusted across the board, not just by tier?

[CalledDownLight]

The short slate gpps are unbeatable if they fill due to rake. There is no amount of skill you can have to change that. I still tilt enter them some though and plenty of other people play them obviously.

[ZBTHorton]

Originally Posted by PeteBlow

I understand what you're saying (or maybe I don't), but if you're not competing against the pros in the lower tiers doesn't the greater chance of cashing offset that?
Additionally, it's hard/impossible to justify differing rake levels for different players.

...or do you mean rake should be adjusted across the board, not just by tier?

It should effectively be lowered everywhere.

But if you tier all of the pros against just the pros, you're going to need to create an incentive for your cash cows to keep butting heads against each other.

The other main point was about the short slate days. The rake on those days should be a fraction of what it is on normal days. If you are playing a H2H and you share 5 of the same players, guess what, the only winner is FD/DK. Which in and of itself isn't a horrible thing, but if you want to keep stressing the skill argument and keep telling people on the radio/tv to come flex their fantasy sport skills....creating unbeatable games isn't the way to do it.

By far the scariest part of how DK/FD have been run thus far is that I feel like they are being run entirely to create huge numbers and gaudy **** to present in commercials and with virtually no concern for the long term longevity of the games. They have an actual real life idea/product/market/innovative item here and if they handle it correctly it can last a really long time. But all they want to do is allow people to enter 5,000 games a weekend(seriously wtf) and enter who knows how many MM entries in order to shove some slightly higher guarantee down our throats.

Help people have fun and help lots of people make a little money and this product can be massive and stable and fun as hell. Rake the **** out of everyone and let everyone go against Condia 5,000 times a day and people will get bored of it just like they did poker.

[PeteBlow]

Poker has lasted longer because they knew the instant they were knocked out and it wasn't always by the same person.

[ballin4life]

Rake is super super high, but it's kinda your fault IMO if you're playing short slates.

[ZBTHorton]

Originally Posted by ballin4life

Rake is super super high, but it's kinda your fault IMO if you're playing short slates.

People shouldn't have to just not play on certain days because the site won't make a trivially simple change to the structure.

[DefNotRsigley]

fwiw my most profitable slates were the 5pm/7pm late mlb starts

so many random people joining i'm guessing who were tilting from their 4pm rosters

[bjornb]

Yahoo will match your next deposit 200% up to $2,000.

Wow internet bonus whores rejoice.

[CalledDownLight]

Originally Posted by bjornb

Yahoo will match your next deposit 200% up to $2,000.

Wow internet bonus whores rejoice.

been like that since before the season, but they also won't return your emails about the scoring rules for >24 hrs then when they do they will cite the rules for season long leagues and just claim that it should have read the same for DFS, but didn't. Pretty good customer service. Also, quite possibly illegal (but i'm no lawyer) since they score based on different rules than the ones they posted in some cases.

[TheNonPareil]

What kind of volume would I have to put in to clear that 2k?

[CharlieDontSurf]

Lol every one of my casual friends who has signed up for DFS based of commercials and hype etc has been like "well I get 100% match on my deposit regardless so it's not that big of deal if I lose my $100 or $200".

[falldown]

Originally Posted by TheNonPareil

What kind of volume would I have to put in to clear that 2k?

$2,000/.04 = $50,000 in entries.

[DrawNone]

is there a law guaranteeing all balances will be paid out? if the industry is completely unregulated how is everyone so sure the money is safe?

[Priptonite]

Thoughts on a subscription-based, rake-free DFS site? Could have tiered subscriptions based on volume. $10/month for 100 or less contests, $20 for 500 contests, etc. At this point I think the market is saturated and idk if any new site could compete, but I've been wondering why no site has tried this approach.

[falldown]

Originally Posted by Priptonite

Thoughts on a subscription-based, rake-free DFS site? Could have tiered subscriptions based on volume. $10/month for 100 or less contests, $20 for 500 contests, etc. At this point I think the market is saturated and idk if any new site could compete, but I've been wondering why no site has tried this approach.

I think you have to guarantee payouts. So this sort of thing could backfire if you have low entry into your contests.

Said another way, you need a pretty high rake because as a "bookie" you have a legit shot to lose money on the contests that don't fill.

[mmbt0ne]

Poker sites that tried to compete on rake never got traction. I don't know why DFS would be any different.

[Priptonite]

Originally Posted by falldown

I think you have to guarantee payouts. So this sort of thing could backfire if you have low entry into your contests.

Said another way, you need a pretty high rake because as a "bookie" you have a legit shot to lose money on the contests that don't fill.

Yeah, I guess I envision more of a cash game crowd. It would definitely be difficult to run guaranteed contests.

[dkgojackets]

it would depend on how much it is reduced from the current obscene levels, but honestly its probably more profitable to play in the status quo than to play only against players who put in enough effort to find lower rake

in my data double ups have been more profitable than 50/50s despite 2% higher rake because the 50/50s are likely filled with nits smart enough to try to save some change while double ups are yoloers

[BGnight]

Originally Posted by DuckSauce

I'm freaking out atm. Feel like this could be borderline black Friday bad and unrecoverable.

I hope there's a black friday for DFS because it will only help poker in the long run. I play DFS every week and think it's fun but part of me wants to see it die a horrible death. Karma for that bull**** carve out in UIGEA.