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 09-19-2011, 07:01 AM #1 GT-Four enthusiast     Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 84 Win and then lose theory Hello. If I win with 5\$ to 1000\$ and then lose all of them, how much money did I lose, 5\$ or 1000\$? and why?
 09-19-2011, 07:30 AM #2 Chillypill banned     Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: @uNL 4betting you light Posts: 1,122 Re: Win and then lose theory you lost 1000\$ since you had 1000\$secured ?
 09-19-2011, 08:30 AM #3 Akhanar grinder     Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 435 Re: Win and then lose theory If you start on Monday with \$5 then work all week at your mundane, soul-sucking job and get paid \$\$995 on Friday, then spend \$1000 on hookers and blow on Saturday... How much money did you lose?
 09-19-2011, 09:36 AM #4 RustyBrooks Carpal \'Tunnel     Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 23,454 Re: Win and then lose theory Either \$5 or \$1000 is valid depending on your point of view. But the shorted the period, the less the point of view is valid. In terms of poker I tend to think of the amount of money I have as winrate*handsplayed. So if experience indicates that I win 5bb/100 and I have played 1000 hands then to me I am up 50bb - if I actually have made 1000bb or lost 400bb it's not relevant - without trying to make it mystical or anything, the deviation from my expected win rate isn't "mine".
 09-19-2011, 01:24 PM #5 ArtySmokes Carpal \'Tunnel     Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Ethics, UK Posts: 6,999 Re: Win and then lose theory A win or a loss is a momentary occurrence that affects your overall balance. A win rate takes into account a time period, which could be an hour, a week, or a lifetime etc. If you won 1000 on day 1 and lost 1005 on day 2, your overall balance would be -\$5 (a loss of five dollars), with a win rate (average) of -2.50 per day.
09-20-2011, 06:24 PM   #6
Polsk23
grinder

Join Date: May 2010
Location: Home of the Ducks
Posts: 557
Re: Win and then lose theory

Quote:
 Originally Posted by RustyBrooks Either \$5 or \$1000 is valid depending on your point of view. But the shorted the period, the less the point of view is valid. In terms of poker I tend to think of the amount of money I have as winrate*handsplayed. So if experience indicates that I win 5bb/100 and I have played 1000 hands then to me I am up 50bb - if I actually have made 1000bb or lost 400bb it's not relevant - without trying to make it mystical or anything, the deviation from my expected win rate isn't "mine".
This

 09-21-2011, 03:19 AM #7 acesholdup old hand   Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,390 Re: Win and then lose theory For tax purposes I think \$5 is the better answer in most jurisdictions.
09-21-2011, 10:16 AM   #8
NoLimitNinjaBri

Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,159
Re: Win and then lose theory

Quote:
 Originally Posted by acesholdup For tax purposes I think \$5 is the better answer in most jurisdictions.
Uhh, no. If we're able to deduct gambling losses, we want the larger figure.

09-21-2011, 02:51 PM   #9
acesholdup
old hand

Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,390
Re: Win and then lose theory

Quote:
 Originally Posted by NoLimitNinjaBri Uhh, no. If we're able to deduct gambling losses, we want the larger figure.
Uh, no...even if you are able to deduct losses obviously you'd also have to add to wins in this situation (if not every person in the world would play a little low stakes lhe, or better yet something like baccarat, in their spare time and never pay a cent of taxes on anything). It's far better to be able to say you just didn't make any money as there are some spots where you have to add the wins but not deduct the losses (so there are some cases where the \$5 answer is better, some where the \$1000 answer is the same, and some where the \$1000 answer is significantly worse if you aren't able to deduct the loss but have to count the win).

Last edited by acesholdup; 09-21-2011 at 02:59 PM.

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