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Old 05-01-2020, 12:49 PM   #1
TK1991
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When to start 4betting?

Hey, The villain is REGular player. In both situations the villain 3bets only 5%.I don't know if it's a good idea to 4Bet vs. 3BET5%. How to solve the situations? Where is the border to start using 4b range and 4b range with bluffs?


SB: $45.95 (183.8 bb)
BB: $32.44 (129.8 bb)
UTG: $25 (100 bb)
Hero (MP): $25 (100 bb)
CO: $25 (100 bb)
BTN: $25 (100 bb)

Preflop: Hero is MP with X X
UTG folds, Hero raises to $0.75, CO folds, BTN raises to $2.25, 2 folds, Hero???


SB: $25.59 (102.4 bb)
BB: $25 (100 bb)
UTG: $5.59 (22.4 bb)
Hero (MP): $31.49 (126 bb)
CO: $49.86 (199.4 bb)
BTN: $25 (100 bb)

Preflop: Hero is MP with X X
UTG folds, Hero raises to $0.68, 3 folds, BB raises to $2.50 , Hero???

Thanks!

Last edited by TK1991; 05-01-2020 at 12:57 PM.
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Old 05-01-2020, 01:09 PM   #2
Lezaleas
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Re: When to start 4betting?

Exploitatively speaking, it depends on how often he folds to your 4bet, not how often he 3bets. Now, tight 3bettors generally don't fold much but there are exceptions. So just figure out how often he folds and then calculate the ev of your bluffs.
You can always 4bet at least around 1/3 of his range for value tough
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Old 05-01-2020, 01:31 PM   #3
ionutd
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Re: When to start 4betting?

ofc it's a good idea to 4bet
do you not want to build the pot with premium holdings?
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Old 05-01-2020, 03:10 PM   #4
TK1991
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Re: When to start 4betting?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lezaleas View Post
Exploitatively speaking, it depends on how often he folds to your 4bet, not how often he 3bets. Now, tight 3bettors generally don't fold much but there are exceptions. So just figure out how often he folds and then calculate the ev of your bluffs.
You can always 4bet at least around 1/3 of his range for value tough
If we 4bet $5.5 we need feq 68%. He never folds so much. Well, 4bet as bluff doesnt make sense?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ionutd View Post
ofc it's a good idea to 4bet
do you not want to build the pot with premium holdings?
If he 3bets only 5% he stacks off only QQ+, AK and he folds the rest(probably doesnt have any calling range). Is not better to let him make a mistake with his bluffs postflop instead of forcing him to do right fold with bluffs preflop?
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Old 05-01-2020, 03:27 PM   #5
LordPallidan12
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Re: When to start 4betting?

you can run some fold equity calcs with equilab and a calculator

ive run pf sims vs villains like this, generally we just let them have it , call with PP, stack with premiums. there are a few combos of 4b bluffs... u can fold a lot to them as long as u dont think they gonna start exploiting you imo
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Old 05-01-2020, 05:21 PM   #6
dubakkur2
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Re: When to start 4betting?

how many samples??

Get 3b/f3b/4bet ratio/f4b/5bet range in ur HUD - this should tell you how often he will fold to 4bets and what he shoves

This is what i would vs this guy

H1) OOP - 4bet - JJ+/AK - call off with KK/AA (if his 5bet is 0.5% - fold KK )

H2) IP - 4bet - KK,AA - call off the shove. Play QQ, AK in position
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Old 05-02-2020, 06:40 AM   #7
TK1991
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Re: When to start 4betting?

Thanks guys!
Last question:
Do you have any rule when you start 4betting light?
In case when we have good sample to know what villain's 3b is but we dont know how much he folds vs. 4bet?

Thanks!
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Old 05-02-2020, 01:27 PM   #8
LordPallidan12
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Re: When to start 4betting?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TK1991 View Post
Thanks guys!
Last question:
Do you have any rule when you start 4betting light?

Thanks!
my dad bought me the mmasherdog course. he said 1:1 value bluff ratio on 4bets
seems like a good rule as a baseline, when u decide to exploit go from there
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Old 05-02-2020, 01:31 PM   #9
dubakkur2
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Re: When to start 4betting?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TK1991 View Post
Thanks guys!
Last question:
Do you have any rule when you start 4betting light? (1)
In case when we have good sample to know what villain's 3b is but we dont know how much he folds vs. 4bet?

Thanks!
I 4bet light in position and when he folds to 4bet too much (I think optimal mdf as per theory is 50% )

check with your ur hud provider as to how many samples does it take to converge fold to 4bet
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Old 05-05-2020, 12:10 AM   #10
Dejavudu666
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Re: When to start 4betting?

Are you 4betting light as a default or sticking to a 1:1 bluff to value ratio?

Is this a merged or polarised (sc's/ suited Aces) 4bet range.

I'm using a merged 4bet range and a poster on reddit said a merged 4bet range was terrible..?

Thanks.
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Old 05-21-2020, 12:51 PM   #11
4b72o
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Re: When to start 4betting?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TK1991 View Post
Thanks guys!
Last question:
Do you have any rule when you start 4betting light?
In case when we have good sample to know what villain's 3b is but we dont know how much he folds vs. 4bet?

Thanks!
Someone who 3bets this small percentage is still 3betting enough to 4bet somewhat light however you have to recognize that they are most likely 3betting a merged range. The way I construct my range is 4betting my strongest hands AA, KK and AKs. I like to have some strong hands in my flatting range so I mix raises and calls of AKo and QQ, JJ. Iíll raise with some of these combos as well. I like to pick hands that are boarderline like AJs AQo, KJs etc to put in my 4bet range as they block hands that opponent would most likely 5 bet(AA,KK, QQ, AK) or call JJ, AQs, KQs etc. I know A5s and A4 are popular hands these days but they perform horribly against opponents with tight three bet ranges that are most likely merged and only block a small portion of their merged range. Those hands tend to perform slightly better against three betters with a wider more polar range.
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