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 08-12-2017, 06:41 PM #1 Marc14 grinder   Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 443 Wanting villain to fold when ahead Hey guys, hope you can settle an argument for me. Are there any spots in NLHE in which we are ahead EV wise, bet, and want a villain to fold, from a math standpoint only? Is it ever possible to put money in bad when we are ahead? I guess we can make a bad bet and give V good odds for a call, but it's still putting in money good isn't it? Thanks! Last edited by Marc14; 08-12-2017 at 07:11 PM. Reason: typo
 08-12-2017, 07:20 PM #2 thorfather centurion   Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 112 Re: Wanting villain to fold when ahead Let's assume we're on the turn with a PSB behind and a hand with 60% equity vs villain. If we bet pot and get a fold our EV is pot. If we get a call our EV is 0.6*3pot - pot = 0.8 pot, lower than our EV when V folds. Note that when we check our EV is only 0.6 pot (assuming river is always check/check) so betting and getting a fold > betting and getting called > checking. Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L21 using Tapatalk
 08-12-2017, 07:46 PM #3 ZKesic grinder     Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Slovenia Posts: 458 Re: Wanting villain to fold when ahead If villian has odds to call, we want him to fold, it's as simple as that. Even if villian has a draw on the turn, and our bet is giving him odds to call, we want him to fold, even though we may have 70%+ equity.
 08-12-2017, 08:19 PM #4 Marc14 grinder   Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 443 Re: Wanting villain to fold when ahead Great, thanks to both of you.
08-13-2017, 01:46 PM   #5
ArtyMcFly
Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Enchantment Under the Sea
Posts: 7,629
Re: Wanting villain to fold when ahead

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Marc14 Are there any spots in NLHE in which we are ahead EV wise, bet, and want a villain to fold, from a math standpoint only?
I don't know what you mean by "ahead EV wise". If you mean ahead in terms of equity (i.e. we're a favourite to have the best hand at showdown), then these spots arise constantly.
When I open AJo on the button, I would rather have the blinds fold than do anything else, even if I'm ahead, because my average EV when I'm dealt AJo in that spot might be something like 0.6bb, but stealing the blinds nets 1.5bb.
Preventing your opponents from realizing their equity is a key reason for betting/raising. In many spots, more of your EV comes from eliciting folds (and winning the whole pot) than by getting called (and winning a share of a bigger pot).

08-13-2017, 05:02 PM   #6
BDHarrison

Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,040
Re: Wanting villain to fold when ahead

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Marc14 Is it ever possible to put money in bad when we are ahead? Thanks!
If you mean being an underdog despite having the best made hand when the money goes in, you can put your money in bad with A2 against T9 on a 872 flop.

 08-19-2017, 11:11 PM #7 WehrmatsWormhat centurion     Join Date: May 2017 Posts: 140 Re: Wanting villain to fold when ahead To elaborate on what others have said, this is why bet sizing is so important. You want to make it a suboptimal play for a villain to all when behind. The way you do that is by adjusting your bet sizing such that they're not getting the odds to call.
08-20-2017, 09:27 AM   #8
just_grindin
Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,342
Re: Wanting villain to fold when ahead

Quote:
 Originally Posted by WehrmatsWormhat To elaborate on what others have said, this is why bet sizing is so important. You want to make it a suboptimal play for a villain to all when behind. The way you do that is by adjusting your bet sizing such that they're not getting the odds to call.
It can be more profitable to bet even if you can't deny your opponent the odds to drawing.

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