Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Poker Theory General poker theory

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-12-2017, 06:41 PM   #1
Marc14
grinder
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 443
Wanting villain to fold when ahead

Hey guys, hope you can settle an argument for me.

Are there any spots in NLHE in which we are ahead EV wise, bet, and want a villain to fold, from a math standpoint only?

Is it ever possible to put money in bad when we are ahead?

I guess we can make a bad bet and give V good odds for a call, but it's still putting in money good isn't it?

Thanks!

Last edited by Marc14; 08-12-2017 at 07:11 PM. Reason: typo
Marc14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2017, 07:20 PM   #2
thorfather
centurion
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 112
Re: Wanting villain to fold when ahead

Let's assume we're on the turn with a PSB behind and a hand with 60% equity vs villain. If we bet pot and get a fold our EV is pot. If we get a call our EV is 0.6*3pot - pot = 0.8 pot, lower than our EV when V folds. Note that when we check our EV is only 0.6 pot (assuming river is always check/check) so betting and getting a fold > betting and getting called > checking.

Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L21 using Tapatalk
thorfather is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2017, 07:46 PM   #3
ZKesic
grinder
 
ZKesic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Slovenia
Posts: 455
Re: Wanting villain to fold when ahead

If villian has odds to call, we want him to fold, it's as simple as that.
Even if villian has a draw on the turn, and our bet is giving him odds to call, we want him to fold, even though we may have 70%+ equity.
ZKesic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2017, 08:19 PM   #4
Marc14
grinder
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 443
Re: Wanting villain to fold when ahead

Great, thanks to both of you.
Marc14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2017, 01:46 PM   #5
ArtyMcFly
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
ArtyMcFly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Enchantment Under the Sea
Posts: 7,616
Re: Wanting villain to fold when ahead

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc14 View Post
Are there any spots in NLHE in which we are ahead EV wise, bet, and want a villain to fold, from a math standpoint only?
I don't know what you mean by "ahead EV wise". If you mean ahead in terms of equity (i.e. we're a favourite to have the best hand at showdown), then these spots arise constantly.
When I open AJo on the button, I would rather have the blinds fold than do anything else, even if I'm ahead, because my average EV when I'm dealt AJo in that spot might be something like 0.6bb, but stealing the blinds nets 1.5bb.
Preventing your opponents from realizing their equity is a key reason for betting/raising. In many spots, more of your EV comes from eliciting folds (and winning the whole pot) than by getting called (and winning a share of a bigger pot).
ArtyMcFly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2017, 05:02 PM   #6
BDHarrison
adept
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,025
Re: Wanting villain to fold when ahead

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc14 View Post
Is it ever possible to put money in bad when we are ahead?
Thanks!
If you mean being an underdog despite having the best made hand when the money goes in, you can put your money in bad with A2 against T9 on a 872 flop.
BDHarrison is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2017, 11:11 PM   #7
WehrmatsWormhat
centurion
 
WehrmatsWormhat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 140
Re: Wanting villain to fold when ahead

To elaborate on what others have said, this is why bet sizing is so important. You want to make it a suboptimal play for a villain to all when behind. The way you do that is by adjusting your bet sizing such that they're not getting the odds to call.
WehrmatsWormhat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2017, 09:27 AM   #8
just_grindin
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,342
Re: Wanting villain to fold when ahead

Quote:
Originally Posted by WehrmatsWormhat View Post
To elaborate on what others have said, this is why bet sizing is so important. You want to make it a suboptimal play for a villain to all when behind. The way you do that is by adjusting your bet sizing such that they're not getting the odds to call.
It can be more profitable to bet even if you can't deny your opponent the odds to drawing.

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk
just_grindin is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:00 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online