Does optimal play exist for deeper than 200bb?

If no theory yet, assume the following:

- hero gets invite to 1000bb+ effective live game
- hero wants to prepare for such uncharted territory

1. What would you do to prepare?
2. What is surprisingly different about ultra-deep vs normal 100-200bb play? (if anything)
3. Models? Equations? Ideas? Psychology?
4. If not being scientific, what was the "feel" of being this deep?

(I have nothing good to provide except empty words -> a hope for another poker boom, and that ultra-deep could be to Poker as an octagon is to fighting.)

These are my first thoughts...
Fold kk to a preflop shove.
Play wider ranges.
3b wider.
4b wider.
5b wider.
Need a 6b range.
Value of suited aces goes way up.
Implied odds are a higher priority.
Note that winning our fair share of the blinds is still an important factor.
Raise sizes may need to be bigger.

Position is infinitely more important when deep.

How to win 20+ buyin pots?

You don't always want to have the nuts in your max-bet range. Because villains begin to fold up to the nuts at a certain depth. Also bolstering hero's checking range while having a safety net vs. aggro players.

Does being an OMC become easier or more difficult when ultra deep? Can a winning professional play only pairs and suited aces (except in the case of being in position and closing the action)....could having a postflop aggression of zero be great on tables with bad aggressive players?

The challenge for ultra deep stacked theory is that real poker has way more nuts vs 2nd nuts than can be modeled easily.

So, you have the chip depth to 4b a scary turn card, and maybe you can even find some combos to bluff with. However, there comes a point at which you are just running into the nuts.

So, unless the stakes are so small (or you are so rich) that getting kicked in the balls for 500bb does not matter, playing and studying 100 or 200 deep is just better (as in more interesting/fun) poker.

Honestly I feel like super insanely deep stacked poker gets pretty boring theory wise because like robert said theres a point where you only have to defend nutted combos given how much of your range you get to fold in an insanely deep pot.

But then again I havent attemtped to study 500bb+ stack sizes so maybe I am very wrong and ignorant.

Fwiw, I played a hand recently 350 effective.

3b TT from oop.

Flop KT3r iirc...

Bet flop, vil raised full pot. I reraised small, vill shoved for another 275bb. I snapped, and held vs a bluff.

Looking back on the hand, the vil was not bad, given the money in the pot. He was intending to fold out my AK. I would have called AK in the heat of the moment, which would have been wrong. If AK hits on a dry flop and you can not call a raise, the game just got boring.

Sounds exploitable to me.

If you're uncomfortable with huge stacks then straddle and restraddle and you've turned a 1000BB game into a 250BB game.

If no straddle: If preflop raises are still only 2-3BB and not a lot of 3betting going on then you can play almost any two cards pre hoping to hit big.

There's an interesting section in one of Dan Harrington's books (IIRC) where he compares high BB games to medium and shortstack games - and how different kinds of hands are playable in each scenario..

You know what, I have a theory that when stacks get very deep we don't include certain hands in our preflop range to prevent being capped. If it is unprofitable to play then it is just mucked. You'll be capped on certain runouts, but oh well. Your opponent may be able to punish you since they have a wide enough range to maybe make you overfold a lot, but on other run outs they are going to suffer so much that it will make up for those times and more.

If I'm playing 4,000,000 BBs deep and someone opens the pot, they don't have to have 52s in their opening range UTG so they aren't capped on 43AK9 runout. 52s may be the nuts and be able to jam the river putting AA into a situation where it is folding a very large percentage of the time (almost always). Most runouts are not going to be good for 52s and it should be mucked preflop simply because it is going to lose money on all the other many boards.

With suited aces I could see this being effected in a big way as another poster has already pointed out. The nut flush will come up very often and being able to jam on flush runouts will be very profitable. I wonder if this would affect non suited aces as well. When you hold the nut blocker you will be able to jam more often because your opponent has to fold more of his range. In some situations it could be correct for your opponent to fold everything since you'll have too many suited aces.

Personally, I would much much rather hold JJ than AQo.

However, I doubt that Libratus would agree.

The high stakes thread features 350+ deep hands sometimes, and I would think studying those stack depths is required for high stakes.

Balanced bluffing river reraises in 4b pots, ugh, makes my brain tired just thinking about it.

I think position and bet size is going to matter quite a bit in this spot. If your opponent is in a later position his flop raise probably shouldn't be happening since he probably is 4-betting KK. If he is in EP I think it is reasonable. I don't know what flop bet sizing you are choosing, but I'd imagine most of them being able to call a flop raise with AK.

I checked the hand history, and you are correct.

350bb eff stacks w/vill

Vil was MP and raised to 5bb over an UTG limper. I was in the BB and 3b squeezed to 15bb with TT, UTG folds, MP calls.

Flop K T 5 rainbow 32bb

I c-bet 1/2 pot 16bb

MP raised to 45bb

I reraised to 84bb

MP shoved with remaining 290bb, I called.

MP shows 98ss and turned a gutter but missed river.

I agree he should not usually have KK in range here, but my read on this player was a “thinking LAG” and those players are not abc players. Also, the only KT in my range is suited, where he will have KTo combos as well. My only sets are KK and TT, he will also have 33.

It is just 3.5 buy-ins, and I can play it with appropriate aggression. However, I prefer not to exceed 400bb effective, but rarely have to sit out with such a stack at the micros.