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Understanding turn/river overbetting. Understanding turn/river overbetting.

08-13-2018 , 09:15 PM
I've recently been getting back into online poker and I see that overbetting turn/rivers are standard now (I know....its been a while since I've played consistently).

I'm just trying to understand the rational behind it. I know there's a ton of different situations, but is it generally applicable when we are playing against a capped range so we can get a lot more folds vs. PSB (or less) with our bluffs, while still extracting value from our value hands? I'm assuming solvers helped the poker community figure out overbetting is +EV on turn/rivers?

And about sizing with them. Is it essentially a personal preference in terms of some use 125%, some 150%, etc. or does each apply to different situations?

I subscribe to RIO, so if anyone knows of a good vid could you shoot me the title? Thanks.
Understanding turn/river overbetting. Quote
08-13-2018 , 10:10 PM
With high stack to pot ratios, I don't bet > pot on the flop or turn, but I do on the river depending on the strength of my hand (value) and how far from the bottom of my range I am (bluff).

With low stack to pot ratios, I bet > pot much more often because leaving little stacks behind with a range that is > 33% bluffs really sucks. You have to be pretty sure that your opponent isn't going to raise you when you're going for the thin value hands that earn the most with a smaller betsize.
Understanding turn/river overbetting. Quote
08-13-2018 , 11:16 PM
I don't think people use it very well at mid-stakes. Balance is pretty difficult to achieve in game imo. I'll use it very rarely, either at a point in a tournament where the chips in the pot are valuable enough and we're left with an inferior stack if we don't bluff. Or when V has a pretty defined and uncapped range and we have a disguised nut hand.

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Understanding turn/river overbetting. Quote
08-14-2018 , 02:56 AM
Exploitatively overbets work well when we know villain's range is capped.

For example we raise 3BB UTG BTN and BB call, say 100BB stacks.

Flop (9.5BB) A76ssd

Say BTN is a solid player. He should almost never flat a set or 2p here given the number of draws and that it's multiway. Assuming we know this... we can bet like half pot 5BB here, BTN calls BB folds.

Turn (19.5BB) A762ssdh

The 2h is a hyperblank card and improves almost none of BTN's holdings. We also know he is likely capped at TPGK or we would have seen a raise on the flop. Here we can overbet bluff for like 30BB and get a ton of folds. I would do this with hands that have a lot of equity like KQss or T9ss. And for balance we can also overbet our sets and 2p here, knowing we are pretty much always ahead.

And when we suspect villain is strong overbets can also be a good choice when we have the effective nuts. For instance we open UTG with JJcs 3BB CO calls.

Flop (6BB) J62hds

CO is a solid player. We bet 3BB and he raises to 9BB. There aren't many likely bluffs on this board so we figure he has 66 or 22 when it isn't air. We call.

Turn (24BB) J623hdss

While 54 is vaguely possible we are usually good here and don't think villain can lay down a set. It's a good spot to overbet 36BB or so. It doesn't look quite as strong as a x/r and he may think we are just overbetting QQ+.
Understanding turn/river overbetting. Quote
08-14-2018 , 07:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shai Hulud
Exploitatively overbets work well when we know villain's range is capped.

For example we raise 3BB UTG BTN and BB call, say 100BB stacks.

Flop (9.5BB) A76ssd

Say BTN is a solid player. He should almost never flat a set or 2p here given the number of draws and that it's multiway. Assuming we know this... we can bet like half pot 5BB here, BTN calls BB folds.

Turn (19.5BB) A762ssdh

The 2h is a hyperblank card and improves almost none of BTN's holdings. We also know he is likely capped at TPGK or we would have seen a raise on the flop. Here we can overbet bluff for like 30BB and get a ton of folds. I would do this with hands that have a lot of equity like KQss or T9ss. And for balance we can also overbet our sets and 2p here, knowing we are pretty much always ahead.

And when we suspect villain is strong overbets can also be a good choice when we have the effective nuts. For instance we open UTG with JJcs 3BB CO calls.

Flop (6BB) J62hds

CO is a solid player. We bet 3BB and he raises to 9BB. There aren't many likely bluffs on this board so we figure he has 66 or 22 when it isn't air. We call.

Turn (24BB) J623hdss

While 54 is vaguely possible we are usually good here and don't think villain can lay down a set. It's a good spot to overbet 36BB or so. It doesn't look quite as strong as a x/r and he may think we are just overbetting QQ+.
Thanks for the examples. So in your first example. Are you second barreling with an overbet with your bluffs on blank rivers?
Understanding turn/river overbetting. Quote
08-14-2018 , 08:23 PM
That's the problem with finding balance... If we overbet there because we believe V overfolds, then we are exploiting ourselves by overbetting the nutted part of our range for balance.

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Understanding turn/river overbetting. Quote

      
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