Understanding Nash Push Fold in HU Hyper Turbos
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 1
I just what's to get a quick opinion poll on how important people consider push fold techniques in short games like HU hypers?
I'm looking to build a training tool for new players to use that will skill them up on various skills for heads up play, and Nash Push Fold has come up a lot in my study.
Sent from my ONE A2001 using Tapatalk
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,822
Should be highly relevant, theoretically.
Once a player identifies a weakness in an opponent with regard to push/fold then applying it correctly is a clearly dominant strategy and prints monies.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 240
Push/Fold strats are relevant for 0-8bb hu play.. To apply a push/fold strat above 8bb it's a bad idea.
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 13,256
The top pros in HUSNGs have pretty much "solved" those games using simulators. At various stack depths, they'll be using strategies that include raise-folding, raise-calling, raise-shoving, limp-folding, limp-calling, limp-shoving, and open shoving. As Fredy pointed out, "push or fold" (using Nash charts) is only really used at meaningful stakes for very short stacks like 8bb or less.
For total beginners, a tool that teaches Nash push-fold ranges up to 15bb can't be a terrible idea though. Just make sure that your students also understand there are also the options of minraising or limping with some parts of their ranges when they have more than 8bb or so. (And in case it's not obvious, they'd do very badly if they only used a push/fold strategy with 25bb+. That's a comparatively large stack where many superior strategies are available.)
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 5,678
Expert Heads Up No Limit Hold'Em gives full solutions to some short limited types of short stack games (push/fold, raise/fold, etc.).
If we are not HU, but 3+ handed and folded to in the SB I've been using push/fold for some stack sizes higher than 8BB. Min-raise/fold doesn't seem to make much sense because the BB can just call and see a flop in position with many hands. Larger raises which actually have a decent chance at stealing are still too committal at short stack sizes.
Regarding the BB's unexploitable calling range in the push/fold game. It seems to me that these ranges would not be optimal in the full game if push/folding only as the SB is not optimal at a stack size. For example, if it is correct to limp some hands at 6BB and the BB assumes the SB is playing push/fold, isn't the BB making a mistake using the Nash calling ranges for the push/fold game at 6BB?
