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Sizing Q with Pio Sizing Q with Pio

05-08-2018 , 05:05 AM
If we pick between 2 sizings using pio (30% and 100%) for simplicity will competent opponents be able to exploit us with certain parts of our range?

For example we raise BTN, BB calls then flop is AK5. BB wont have AK/AQ making us want to size up with our AK/AQ/AJ/A5.

How do we balance this when we have hands that greatly benefit from a 30% sizing when we're always going to be potting with our nutted hands here.

Seems like a competent opponent will be able to call us down more frequently and or raise us more frequently

Pio does suggest occasionally mixing 30% sizing in with our nutted hands but it seems like that would be too hard to do in real time.
Sizing Q with Pio Quote
05-08-2018 , 05:10 AM
Educa did say he just picks one best sizing out of all the sizings that pio suggests but I'm not sure if he mean't for a specific hand or the entire range.
Sizing Q with Pio Quote
05-08-2018 , 06:52 AM
Some players will use random number generators (RNGs) to help them make decisions about frequencies (whether to bet or not) and sizes (to go big or small). It's easier as a human to restrict yourself to one size for your range, mostly because it's too complex trying to learn so many mixed strategies. After all, right in the moment of playing an actual hand, you either bet or you don't bet. You can't bet 30% of the pot 85% of the time in the vacuum of playing one hand. You just pick a size and an action and go with it. You can therefore simplify your study by looking at a single-size strat in Pio and learn the betting range that applies for that size. Using multiple sizes (in theory) only adds a modicum of EV anyway. i.e. You're not gonna lose a ton of money just because you never bet 30% of pot on a particular texture if Pio says you should do that 15% of the time. Just try to pick the right size and the right action the majority of the time.
Sizing Q with Pio Quote
05-09-2018 , 07:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thicdonk69
If we pick between 2 sizings using pio (30% and 100%) for simplicity will competent opponents be able to exploit us with certain parts of our range?
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thicdonk69

For example we raise BTN, BB calls then flop is AK5. BB wont have AK/AQ making us want to size up with our AK/AQ/AJ/A5.

How do we balance this when we have hands that greatly benefit from a 30% sizing when we're always going to be potting with our nutted hands here.

Seems like a competent opponent will be able to call us down more frequently and or raise us more frequently

Pio does suggest occasionally mixing 30% sizing in with our nutted hands but it seems like that would be too hard to do in real time.
We balance this by having strong hands in every / most range. If you gave villain the option to overbet after you check back the flop, I wouldn't be surprised to see some nutted hands check back.

Or as Arty said, by using one size.
Sizing Q with Pio Quote
05-09-2018 , 08:36 AM
I think that the wider the ranges involved are, the more betsizes will be correct. So like utg 9 handed vs utg+1 in a single raised pot? One betsize imo. Then button vs big blind in a single raised pot? I use multiple betsizes on certain boards; the reason is that certain boards allow me to have sufficiently wide ranges for all betsizes I choose. For example:

100bb no limit holdem.

I raise 3x on the button, only the big blind calls.

flops: AAKr, J92r, J95r

AAK? I choose to bet pot here and then decide which hands can put in such action.

J92r? I choose to bet either 1/2 pot or 3/4 pot and then I decide which hands can put in such action. I like 1/2 pot with hands like T9s with a backdoor flushdraw and T7s. I like 3/4 pot with hands like KJ and KQ.

J95r? I choose to bet 1/2 pot, 2/3 pot, or 3/4 pot and then I decide which hands can put in such action. I like 1/2 pot with hands like T9s and 76s. I like 2/3 pot with hands like J7s and 87s. I like 3/4 pot with hands like KJ and KQ.

I don't know what solvers say, that's just how I aim to satisfy these wants with different parts of my range:

a) With the small betsize I get value from worse bluffcatchers that are in my opponents range
b) With the medium betsize I get protection from overcards falling with vulnerable pairs.
c) With the big betsize I bloat the pot with monsters and dominating draws.

Of course, the most important aspect of this all is that my range is wide enough to support the number of betsizes I'm utilizing. The more narrow my opening range is, the more readable it will become if I choose multiple betsizes and thus the more vulnerable to counterattack it will be.

----

The river deserves its own thread imo, but I'll give a little more here:

I think the river is the spot where we will see many different betsizes, provided again that the ranges involved are sufficiently wide to support many different ranges. Not only does this get the most value with strong hands that want action, but it also allows the segregation of bluff value into different betsizes.

So If I'm betting 2.5x pot on the river? I either have a monster or a nut blocking hand that is near the showdownable portion of my range.

If I'm betting 0.5x pot on the river? I either have a not so nutty value hand or a hand that has near zero chance of winning unimproved.

In between those extremes are many different available betsizes that I will not try to explain, but the pattern set by these extremes is hopefully apparent.
Sizing Q with Pio Quote

      
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