I'm not new to poker but new to reviewing hands in my session and analysis all together so if I am being Captain Obvious I apologize.

I was reviewing a recent session and it was a winning session. Ran bad early then ran good in the later parts of it.

One thing I noticed was position was more valuable for my winrate than my preflop selection. Maybe it was just this session but it seemed that my looser preflop hand selection in later positions was able to realize more equity than my tighter EP hand selection.

OOP I ran in to a couple of situations where my preflop equity was a lot stronger vs opponents range but after the flop it wasn't as realized (hands like AK-AJ, ATs, QQ-99, KQs).

So without writing an essay I'm starting to come to the conclusion that preflop equity is only relevant in 4 bet with a low SPR or all in situations and position is more valuable due to equity realization. Without an all in situation or 4 bet pot it is actually 100% irrelevant.

Am I looking at it incorrectly and not seeing the long term outlook?

Yes, you are missing the long-term outlook. Equity is overrated by plenty of players, but it's definitely not useless. You have identified that there's much more than equity which is a good step.

Methinks you're taking an all-or-nothing approach that isn't helpful. Of course pre-flop equity is relevant. It's just that you realize more of that equity when you're in position.
e.g. JTs might only be breakeven UTG (because it will be relatively hard to get to showdown), but it will have a higher EV on the button, where it realizes more equity. e.g. On a basic level, it's a lot easier to float IP, than float OOP, and it's easier to take free cards IP, but you can never guarantee a free card when OOP. You still need some real equity though. Position isn't so valuable that 72o is a profitable button open.

I get that part. I don't have equilab in front of me but I know that with a big enough pot 72 has "equity" mathematically assuming some limps, limp behind on the button, 72o could be a call using equity as the only reason for your decision making.

It has equity solely based on math but you are highly unlikely to realize that equity. Flop only comes 772 or x77 x22, 222, 777 etc, so many times and then you could be behind in some of those scenarios so (vs A2, A7, on 22x, 77x boards) therefore it has too many variables to ever make it profitable as a call in position even with equity.

I understand all that about preflop equity. I think the part I am not getting is there will always be 5 additional cards on a run out.

The balance of equity will always be shifting. AA preflop will always have an advantage vs 89s heads up and I want to isolate a player with my strongest preflop range because of preflop equity.

Ok, I think I am getting now the more I type. In more situations than not AA-QQ for instance will beat out suited, connected, and smaller paired hands due to run out frequencies. So in the long run it is profitable and isolating regardless of position is what makes the pre flop equity able to be realized giving it it's value.

Yes, that's a pretty good description of the (limited) usefulness of preflop equity.

The reason I was thinking about this was when I was trying to construct a 3 betting/3 bet calling range when I start playing live $1/$2 soon.

If the 3 better is OMC who only raises the very top of his range I need to be only 3 betting for value not speculative hands. If it is the crazy LAG hoody kid who thinks he is the spawn of Phil Ivey and Patrick Antonios I can call and 4 bet wider.

The reality is most players are going to be unknowns though. I just started using a HUD so I don't have a large enough sample size to compare profitability vs a population sample of specific parts of my range. I also am not a fan of preflop charts just because they can't account for table dynamics.

Table with stations doesn't need as much balance in regards to 3 and 4 bet bluffs. It will be printing money against the worst players (printing for them).

I know I am over thinking this but I want to go in as prepared as possible. Probably need to spend some time with Flopzilla and Equilab. Definitely want to play an exploitative thinking LAG style assuming there will be mostly regs and the guy who read a few books and knows everything that will tell me how bad I was for 3 betting T9s from the BB to squeeze 5 limpers when I beat his AJo with 2 pair or something.

I think you would have more luck in the Beginner's Questions part of the forum.

I think you missed commenting a couple of my posts. You seem to be searching them out. If you want links let me know.

You have to play EP. And to play you choose hands with the best equity.
What's the problem? If you dont like them, you can raise 85s UTG. I prefer AKs.

What you are describing here is your ability to realise the raw equity of your cards postflop, its called equity realisation.

In general, we realise better equity when we are in position. Suuited cards tend to realise more equity than their offsuit counterparts. Pocket pairs realise their equity well etc.

Now here's the example;

If you have 40% raw equity but your combo only realises 80%

You actually only have 40% x 80% = 32% equity once postflop is accounted for.

Villains play style will have a big impact on your ability to realise equity postflop. Which is why we try to play more pots in position against weak players. It's not that the extra (worse) hands we open have profitable raw equity, its the fact the weak player allows us to over realise our equity. And as such we get a boost to our raw equity.

I think it's valid to point out that the marginally profitable part of any range, probably wont be profitable if played by a bad player. So it's fine to fold if a combo is actually -Ev for you.

Add to that the crazy nature of 1/3 and our OOP equity realisation might take a hit further, especially the off suit combos that we open.

Stuff like T9s is ideal for multiway pots. If you are 4 ways to the flop in EP and at a table without a lot of 3bet action then you are more likely to realize equity therefore want to open, correct?

It is a table dynamic thing. Don't have Equilab in front of me but pre flop equity increases with marginal hands the more players in the hand. So if there is no big 3bet dynamic then I want to RFI in a loose passive 1/2 1/3 game with high suited connectors for instance.

If there are squeezers or highly aggressive post flop players it is just a leak to open something like T9s from EP. We need to flop a lot of equity to not be raise/folding.

When I play online I am usually looking for the high% tables of players going to the flop with small pots (loose passive fish). I can play my entire range EP and squeeze a lot in LP. From what people describe this is the typical $1/$2 and $1/$3 live dynamic.

If you are using the term equity in the traditional way – the probability you will win the hand – I can't think of a case where more opponents results in higher equity.

If by equity you are really mean EV, then there are situations where more opponents may result in an increase in EV. Your equity goes down as the number of opponents increase but that is more than compensated for by the increase in the potential winnings. I posted a thread on this about a month ago.

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/1...ning+the+field

I think nowadays the last fish is aware that people play 10-9s etc (raising UTG). So i dont see a big increase actually.
Pros use such hands to balance not because they are superprofitable.

Got ya. The player that had the most equity if it were heads up loses some equity and the equity is then distributed among the players in the hand. So it doesn't necessarily increase your equity with T9s as a direct effect. AA vs T9s, AA has a ton of equity but loses equity when hands that could help it make a straight or flush or a set are accounted for by entering the pot. It is still most likely to win until the flop comes then the equity becomes recalculated.

Yesterday I was reading about a situation of AA UTG going 4 ways to the flop. Most players assume it is a bad scenario but it isn't because it is still +EV and most likely to win. It's win probability goes down but it doesn't become an underdog before the flop.

It's not necessarily that more hands take equity away from AA by accounting for outs for AA to make better hands.

It's the fact that more people entering the pot means that more people have an opportunity to make better hands than AA by showdown. The more players in the pot the more possible boards each of the individual players' hands can intersect with the board to make a better hand than AA.



That is correct. As more players enter the pot (even beyond 4) the raw equity AA has does not drop as quickly as the pot grows, so it's always profitable just looking at the raw equity.

Other factors make it less desirable to play multiway with AA though, specifically concerns with getting to showdown and extracting extra value successfully.