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Old 08-12-2018, 03:44 PM   #1776
SuperGlue
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Re: Pokersnowie question

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Originally Posted by ArtyMcFly View Post
I routinely use 34% of pot (which is sometimes just a minraise) and I'm currently crushing in the micros. In my experience, most opponents play horribly against small bets and raises. (They either float too wide, with absolute no hope hands, or they fold too often).
Yeah, I love my 1/3 pot bets too, they work really well against loose passive fit-or-fold players. Does pokersnowie have the 1/3 pot option? I've played online but now I'm a 2/5 live player and I've been on the fence about getting snowie because I just don't know how relevant it is to crushing the 2/5 or 5/10 games where it's mostly just about exploiting fish. Has snowie helped you with your game? I do read a bit of Matthew Janda and I really like that approach and I wonder how if maybe PS could be a supplement to it...?
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Old 08-12-2018, 05:09 PM   #1777
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Re: Pokersnowie question

I no longer have a Snowie sub, but last time I did, its standard bet sizes were 25%, 50%, POT, 2x POT, and ALL IN.

I don't think Snowie would be massively useful for your live games, if they are the sort that feature limping and/or lots of multiway pots. Snowie computed pseudo-optimal solutions to multiway pots that are nothing like the limped/multiway pots you'll see in real life or in the micros. (Fish play so far from optimally multiway that Snowie's analysis of multiway hands produces results that may well be close to GTO, but that are -EV against weak players. e.g. it would often fold an overpair to a donkbet multiway, because it thinks "overpairs don't do well vs a balanced donking range", when in reality a donk-bettor is often clueless and far from balanced).
If your 2/5 or 5/10 games are more aggro and mostly consist of heads up pots with regs, then I think you can learn a lot about rangebuilding with the software. It's a great training tool to use alongside the theories and strategies discussed in Janda's second book.
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Old 08-12-2018, 10:49 PM   #1778
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Re: Pokersnowie question

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I no longer have a Snowie sub
With all the posting you have done in this thread I think they should just give you a lifetime license.
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Old 08-23-2018, 11:28 AM   #1779
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Re: Pokersnowie question

This is a preflop advisor where we face a 3xBB open from UTG and we are in the Hijack. Does the "82" number where the JJ is mean we 3bet JJ 82% of the time vs UTG 3xBB open?

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Old 08-23-2018, 12:04 PM   #1780
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Re: Pokersnowie question

ye
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Old 08-24-2018, 03:11 PM   #1781
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Re: Pokersnowie question

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ye
thanks! Has pokersnowie ever released how many hands it has played against itself? Someone told me it has played more 6max cash game hands than every human on the planet combined. That seems insane to me
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Old 08-24-2018, 06:26 PM   #1782
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Re: Pokersnowie question

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Someone told me it has played more 6max cash game hands than every human on the planet combined. That seems insane to me
When you consider how many runouts Equilab can compute in a few seconds on a cheap laptop, it's not really that surprising that a few hours on some super-computers will capture a ****ton of data. The snowbots don't have to wait for tank-folds or anything.
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Old 08-24-2018, 08:12 PM   #1783
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Re: Pokersnowie question

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Originally Posted by ArtyMcFly View Post
When you consider how many runouts Equilab can compute in a few seconds on a cheap laptop, it's not really that surprising that a few hours on some super-computers will capture a ****ton of data. The snowbots don't have to wait for tank-folds or anything.
haha and that someone was you! What comes after trillions because Snowie is the GOAT preflop at least.
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Old 08-25-2018, 01:05 PM   #1784
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Re: Pokersnowie question

I like this tool. Here's my thoughts:

The Cons:
  • I don't think the tournament feature is very good at the endgame because I don't think ICM is taken into account. Snowie will GII pre with really questionable hands that are perhaps very marginally +cEV but likely massively -$EV.
  • The analysis tools are pretty cumbersome. It's hard to decipher the ranges
  • It's a sin you can't see Snowie's cards after the hand is over. Actually, it's unfathomable to me that they wouldn't have this feature.

The Pros:
  • It's amazing having on-demand, customizable, risk-free access to half-decent opponents. Snowie is a solid opponent. He won't spew, he won't tilt, he has no fears. He takes some really nice lines that will make you think very hard about how to respond.
  • I think Snowie is particularly valuable as a warm up tool before a session or to use when action is dead and no games are running.


To me, it seems that besides being used for warming up before a session, the best way to use Snowie is to take its ranges in the spots you encounter as a sort of baseline range to have in that spot. Then in game you'd of course use your judgment and reads to add or subtract from that range so as to maximally exploit your opponents.


The Questions:
  • How are you approaching using this tool? Do you try to maximize winrate or minimize error rate? What sorts of things have you learned from using Snowie? What aspects have you ignored?
  • Does anyone have any examples of ways Snowie has demonstrably improved their play?
  • How do you personally use this tool? What does a typical "training" session with Snowie look like for you?
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Old 08-27-2018, 05:08 AM   #1785
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Re: Pokersnowie question

Generally speaking I don't think that striving for getting approval from Snowie in form of low(est) error rates will do you much good since it can't pick up on ++++EV deviations vs fish and strategies that are seemingly far from what it is giving line advice based on.

I mostly use Snowie to train fixed positions and import real hands I'm unsure about (there's quite a lot of them tbh :P ) to figure out a decent approach. Pretty much as you wrote here:

" the best way to use Snowie is to take its ranges in the spots you encounter as a sort of baseline range to have in that spot. Then in game you'd of course use your judgment and reads to add or subtract from that range so as to maximally exploit your opponents."
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Old 08-27-2018, 03:24 PM   #1786
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Re: Pokersnowie question

I am a big fan of snowie but like just about any tool it is a tool not a bible to be followed religiously. I play mostly live cash games and it has helped my game a lot. The games I play often times play pretty different than snowie plays(e.g. lots of limp calls, odd preflop and post flop bet sizing, etc). So in these cases I think snowie tightens up too much because it assume snowie ranges.

For example, a simple scenario in 10 handed cash game could be MP preflop raise to 1/2 pot or $5 at say 1/2nl. Snowie has the following range:

66+, A2s+, K9s+, QTs+, JTs, ATo+, KJo+

66-77 it says to raise roughly 80% of the time so I just included it. I really wish equilab support weighted ranges..

Now for a button 3 betting range it says to do something like this:
QQ+,AKs,ATs-A9s,A7s-A2s,KQs,KTs,76s,65s,54s,AKo

using these ranges the equities are 49/51 mp/btn but if you change the MP preflop raise amount, raising range, etc the play can change drastically. When dealing with a lot of situations that come up in real life I think snowie is too tight but it is a great base to start from and adjust based on the player pool. For example, a bet of $12 in a live 1/2 game may mean the same sort of range as above whereas snowie will tight up a lot facing that bet sizing. While it is correct to tighten up more with a larger raise because of the coming post flop SPR I think snowie assumes a much tighter vilian range and assumes more logical bet sizing than we will actually see in real life
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Old 08-30-2018, 03:34 AM   #1787
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Re: Pokersnowie question

Please add exporting ranges. I would love to export some pre-flop strategy to my Equilab or powerEquilab.

BTW,

Why Snowie likes so much Ax hands when it comes to 3betting? (I'm sure this was explained before, but isn't it a bad thing to 3bet so many Ax because then our board coverage is kinda bad?
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Old 08-30-2018, 06:21 AM   #1788
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Diamond Re: Pokersnowie question

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Originally Posted by 9tablingnit View Post
Why Snowie likes so much Ax hands when it comes to 3betting? (I'm sure this was explained before, but isn't it a bad thing to 3bet so many Ax because then our board coverage is kinda bad?
Ax hands block premium hands so your opponent will fold more often. Your half as likely to run into AA. Also SPR is smaller in 3-bet pots so board coverage is less important.
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Old 08-30-2018, 08:23 AM   #1789
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Re: Pokersnowie question

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Why Snowie likes so much Ax hands when it comes to 3betting?
Blocks the 4-betting range, has equity/playability vs the flatting range.
e.g. When you have A5s, it's very unlikely that you run into AA, and it's more likely villain has hands like TT, which you've got 33% equity against.
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Old 08-30-2018, 12:26 PM   #1790
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Re: Pokersnowie question

While the above is true snowie includes more Axs in its 3B range than PIO preflop solves. So I have wondered about this. Has anyone had a detailed look at monker preflop ranges compared to snowie?

Also, snowie expects the player facing the 3B to call more and 4B less often than many PIO ranges I have looked at? Snowie seems a bit off the mark in some of the 3/4/5 bet parts of the game tree compared to PIO solves. But the PIO solves I have don't use the same bet sizings as snowie so it might be an unfair comparison.
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Old 08-31-2018, 07:36 AM   #1791
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Re: Pokersnowie question

The way Snowie works is it has built in card removal effects, which PIO does not. That might explain why it places a premium on the A blocker. Personally I haven't seen a Monker 6max preflop solve, but I would expect to see it value blockers more than Pio preflop does.

Or it could be just that against the agents it trained Ax was abnormally powerful.
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Old 08-31-2018, 02:47 PM   #1792
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Re: Pokersnowie question

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The way Snowie works is it has built in card removal effects, which PIO does not. .
I don't think this is correct. I see spots all the time in PIO grids where it is clearly adjusting for card removal/blockers. And if solver didn't' consider card removal it would be GTO.
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Old 08-31-2018, 04:44 PM   #1793
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Re: Pokersnowie question

I'm talking about preflop when people have already folded cards before you, not postflop. PIO can't take that into account because it only solves HU games.
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Old 08-31-2018, 06:00 PM   #1794
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Re: Pokersnowie question

For 100bb deep games, weren't the Pio pre-flop ranges set up by humans?
Since they wouldn't have the complete solution to 100bb 6-max, it's not really a surprise if the ranges are a little different to what Snowie computed through trial and error.
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Old 08-31-2018, 08:50 PM   #1795
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Re: Pokersnowie question

Do you guys think the preflop advisor from Snowie for 6max is more useful then let’s say standard Upswing Ranges?
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Old 08-31-2018, 09:13 PM   #1796
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Re: Pokersnowie question

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Originally Posted by getmeoffcompletely View Post
I'm talking about preflop when people have already folded cards before you, not postflop. PIO can't take that into account because it only solves HU games.
That makes more sense but not convinced that some kind of card grouping is big enough to explain.
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Old 08-31-2018, 09:16 PM   #1797
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Re: Pokersnowie question

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Originally Posted by ArtyMcFly View Post
For 100bb deep games, weren't the Pio pre-flop ranges set up by humans?
Since they wouldn't have the complete solution to 100bb 6-max, it's not really a surprise if the ranges are a little different to what Snowie computed through trial and error.
You can use PIO PRO to run HU preflop solutions for X% range for IP player vs the BB. But like others have said it misses whatever the effects are from the other players(expecting BvB spots)
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Old 09-01-2018, 01:10 AM   #1798
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Re: Pokersnowie question

An easy way to test Snowie’s 3bet ranges vs PIO are to run a preflop SIM using UTG vs MP positions.
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Old 09-01-2018, 01:56 AM   #1799
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Re: Pokersnowie question

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An easy way to test Snowie’s 3bet ranges vs PIO are to run a preflop SIM using UTG vs MP positions.
I have hence my comments above
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Old 09-01-2018, 03:14 AM   #1800
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Re: Pokersnowie question

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Originally Posted by mike1270 View Post
While the above is true snowie includes more Axs in its 3B range than PIO preflop solves. So I have wondered about this. Has anyone had a detailed look at monker preflop ranges compared to snowie?

Also, snowie expects the player facing the 3B to call more and 4B less often than many PIO ranges I have looked at? Snowie seems a bit off the mark in some of the 3/4/5 bet parts of the game tree compared to PIO solves. But the PIO solves I have don't use the same bet sizings as snowie so it might be an unfair comparison.
Monker ranges are quite close, but I had to put more antes to Snowie because otherwise, it plays too tight. 10% ante Snowie plays too tight in general, but If you put 25% ante it plays quite close to Monker ranges. Here's example,

Of course, the opening ranges are a bit different as well, so we will never get the exact same result. Monker seems to be much looser pre-flop.

6max, UTG opens and HJ 3bets, 75bb deep.

Monker, 75bb deep, 12,5% ante.



Snowie, 75bb deep, 25% ante:


Last edited by 9tablingnit; 09-01-2018 at 03:19 AM.
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