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12-04-2017 , 02:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brokenstars
33k snowie hands?
I vaguely recall someone with a PGC thread that claimed to have played 200,000! I just do 50 hands a day as a warm-up session, about 20 days a month.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrno1324
@Arty Are you trying to emulate Snowie as closely as possible to get lower error rates or do you make a concerted effort to exploit its possible leaks? Do you ever go "I know Snowie is underbluffing here so I should fold but it's going to consider folding a mistake in the review so I'm going to call."
A bit of both. Pre-flop, I try to play exactly as Snowie would (I've more or less memorized its ranges). Post-flop, I just try to play to the best of my ability, trying to win all the playmoney. Sometimes I find myself in spots where I'm in a no-win situation, because I know I'm crushed by its range, but folding (and saving chips) will be marked as a blunder.

Example spot: I 3bet/call JJ in SB v UTG. I know that Snowie's UTG 4-bet range is weighted towards AA and Axs and I really don't want to pay it off. Apparently I'm supposed to donk the flop, but I just check-called. Then it shoves the turn. I made an "exploitative" fold, because I'm sure I'm beat, but Snowie says that folding is a blunder.



It turns out that in ^ that ^ spot, Snowie always has AA or quads, so I'm basically dead.
But Snowie says calling has an EV of 18bb, which might well be true against the "random agents" it trained against, but clearly isn't true against Snowie itself.


That's the kind of thing that annoys me about playing it. Calling off would be "correct" against random agents, but it loses a stack against Snowie, so it's catch 22: my error rate gets worse if I fold, but I lose a stack if I call.
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12-04-2017 , 02:55 PM
Sometimes, when the stack sizes are little outside what it's used to, it marks up an error and gives advice that is just plain funny.



It said that 8-betting was "a bit too aggressive" and I should have flatted the 7-bet in order to create an SPR of 0.08.
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12-04-2017 , 03:13 PM
Interesting examples, thanks for posting Arty!
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12-04-2017 , 03:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrno1324
Interesting examples, thanks for posting Arty!


+1!
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12-15-2017 , 01:35 PM
Are Snowie's preflop recommendations based on rake on Pokerstars?
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12-15-2017 , 01:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbk_killer
Are Snowie's preflop recommendations based on rake on Pokerstars?
I believe that is the case, yes. Certainly it's the case that Snowie trained with ever-decreasing rake as the limits increase. (Which is why it is much tighter in simulations of the micros, in comparison to 50/100)
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12-19-2017 , 07:56 PM
This is not a question as such, but the latest version of Snowie came out today, and it now "understands" antes, and even features them as an optional component in the challenges, so it might finally be of some use to tournament players. Has anyone tried it?
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12-20-2017 , 07:32 PM
It doesn't seem to understand push/fold yet though
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12-21-2017 , 12:12 AM
Does the starter version worth it?

Will I be able to see how diferent parts of my range play on a specific spot? Or that is just for the most advanced versions?
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12-21-2017 , 12:54 AM
I tried the "challenge" with antes and it crashes my computer every time. The "scenarios" do work with antes. Hopefully this can be fixed, as It's pretty exciting to have antes.
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12-21-2017 , 04:36 AM
I found one thing about Snowie's preflop strategy that seems strange.

If BTN opens for 1/2pot and SB 3bets 1pot. Then Snowie chooses to 4bet to 1pot. Why is a 1pot 4bet better then a 1/2pot 4bet in this spot.

But now consider the same situation for the SB vs BB. SB opens 1pot and BB 3bets to 1pot. Here Snowie want's to 4bet to only 1/2pot.

This seems strange beacuse I thought you wanted to 4bet bigger out of position to decrease the SPR postflop, since you have the disadvantage of being out of position. But when you have position then 4betting smaller makes more sense.

And this is with 100bb stacks.

Last edited by MyDogIsOnTheRoof; 12-21-2017 at 05:01 AM.
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12-21-2017 , 04:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyDogIsOnTheRoof
I found one thing about Snowie's preflop strategy that seems strange.

If BTN opens for 1/2pot and SB 3bets 1pot. Then Snowie chooses to 4bet to 1pot. Why is a 1pot 4bet better then a 1/2pot 4bet in this spot.

But now consider the same situation for the SB vs BB. SB opens 1pot and BB 3bets to 1pot. Here Snowie want's to 4bet to only 1/2pot.

This seems strange beacuse I thought you wanted to 4bet bigger out of position to decrease the SPR postflop, since you have the disadvantage of being out of position. But when you have position then 4betting smaller makes more sense.
I'm guessing here as I don't have Snowie in front of me but is it maybe using a more polarised range otb and hence the bigger sizing?
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12-21-2017 , 05:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Husker
I'm guessing here as I don't have Snowie in front of me but is it maybe using a more polarised range otb and hence the bigger sizing?
That might be it. Snowie is 4betting a wider range in the SB, including most of the pocket pairs.
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12-21-2017 , 07:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Husker
I'm guessing here as I don't have Snowie in front of me but is it maybe using a more polarised range otb and hence the bigger sizing?
Is this strategy something I should implement in my own game? My strategy now is to 4bet a tighter range in the SB to 1pot against a BB 3bet. And on the button, I 4bet 1/2pot with a wider range.

But Snowie do the complete opposite, so maybe I'm doing something wrong
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12-21-2017 , 09:07 AM
It's not something I've really looked at so I wouldn't like to give an answer. There'll be others on here who could probably be cplain it all *cough* 'Arty'.
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12-21-2017 , 11:59 AM
The pre-flop battles in BvB are really strange for me, as they are quite unlike how real people play in the microstakes. Snowie will basically stack off 55+, most Axs, AJ+ and KQs in BvB. It's as if Snowie is happy to get 100bb in with 55, so it makes a half-pot 4-bet with it, almost as if it is trying to induce a 5-bet it can jam over. :/
I think that against the 'exploitable' players in the micros...
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyDogIsOnTheRoof
My strategy now is to 4bet a tighter range in the SB to 1pot against a BB 3bet. And on the button, I 4bet 1/2pot with a wider range.
... is probably a more profitable strategy, as you won't see many light 5-bets in any position.
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12-21-2017 , 04:46 PM
Looks like snowie added antes to sims - interesting
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12-22-2017 , 12:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by altruizine
I tried the "challenge" with antes and it crashes my computer every time. The "scenarios" do work with antes. Hopefully this can be fixed, as It's pretty exciting to have antes.
Hi,

Thanks a lot for bringing this up. It is true, after we released the ante yesterday we had 2 crazy days in which we worked hard to fix a few unexpected glitches.

Hopefully we just released on our AI server a few fixes that should make PokerSnowie working fine with Ante in the Challenges, Scenarios and so on. We are still testing on our end ad we are looking also for customer's feedbacks.

Thanks,
The PokerSnowie Team
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12-22-2017 , 12:53 PM
Can you guys bring back the option to show Snowie’s hand when the player folds in a challenge?
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12-23-2017 , 10:31 AM
I had recently downloaded PokerSnowie and spend sometime study about the PreflopAdvisor module. After studies, I am very curious what assumptions and variables had been applied to generate these preflop ranges. what made me curious are for example:
- Every positions' opening range consists tons of Axs but hardly found any suited connector in the early position's opening range .
- 65s looks like an unbeatable hand that the software suggests to use it flat any early position's open, however you hardly see that the software suggests you to flat with other suited connector (eg:98s,87s,76s). If these suited connector are not in early position's opening range, Why not flat with these suited connector?
- The software suggests that facing UTG open, BB should only 3bet with KK+,AKs, but when BB 3-bet UTG should flat this 3bet with UTG's entire range even AA and KK. If we know BB is only 3-bet with those monster hand, why we dont just fold ?
I know the PokerSnowie is one of the most advance AI software, but the above results are very confuse me. Guys please give me some hint or prove me wrong.
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12-24-2017 , 05:25 PM
Why don't add the all in bet size?

That would be very insightful for short stack plays, and useful for tournaments.
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12-24-2017 , 08:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maroel
Why don't add the all in bet size?
They would if they could
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12-25-2017 , 03:46 AM
On antes being introduced, it's a little surprising that the ranges don't become that much wider, especially in later positions.

edit: opening ranges that is.
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12-25-2017 , 05:16 PM
65 performs better than 98s vs that range.
Can only flat so much
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12-26-2017 , 09:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zhouxx123
65s looks like an unbeatable hand that the software suggests to use it flat any early position's open, however you hardly see that the software suggests you to flat with other suited connector (eg:98s,87s,76s). If these suited connector are not in early position's opening range, Why not flat with these suited connector?
Let's compare 98s and 65s.

1. Which of these hands has the most equity vs AA?
Spoiler:
Not only does 65s beat 98s in this regard, 65s has more equity against aces than any other hand (apart from the other combo of aces).

2. Which hand is less likely to be dominated when it makes a pair?
Spoiler:
Villain doesn't play K6s, Q6s, or J6s UTG, but he could play K9s, Q9s and/or J9s, so 65s is more likely to be "two live cards".

3. Which hand gets stacked more often when it makes the "idiot end" of a straight?
Spoiler:
When you have 65s on 987, villain only has 4 combos of JTs, so your "idiot straight" is very likely to be the best hand. When you have 98s on QJT, villain has 16 combos of AK and 3 of K9s, so you're less likely to win. Hence, 98s will sometimes make a very expensive second-best hand and therefore 98s has worse "reverse implied odds" than 65s. In addition, when you're trying to make a straight with 98s, villain's range contains blockers. Villain's range doesn't heavily block the sevens and fours you need to flop an OESD with 65s.

4. Which hand gets paid off more often when it makes the nut straight?
Spoiler:
When the board comes 432xx and villain has A5s, you stack him every time you have 65s. (You also get value from his other wheel draws). When you have 98s on 765xx, villain never has a worse straight - or many decent draws - to pay you off.

5. Which hand improves the board coverage of your range the best?
Spoiler:
You already have TT-88 and JTs in your flatting range, so you can already represent strong hands on boards containing nines and eights. You don't need 98s for that purpose. 65s helps you make/represent some monster hands on the lower boards.

6. Which hand is my absolute favourite?
Spoiler:
65hh. It's the prettiest hand of all and I have confirmed this by thinking about it.

Last edited by ArtyMcFly; 12-26-2017 at 09:45 AM.
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