Pokersnowie question - Page 11 - Poker Theory

Really ?
I haven't had the patience to play a real sample, only 600 hands but it seemed incredibly weak to me, and I'm already quite a fish HU (still, I won more than 10 BI). My trial has ended so I guess I won't be able to continue but ITT the player "fontaine" has beaten it over a much larger sample with a pretty sick winrate too.

May I ask you what is your level approximately and what strategies did you use ?

Quote

01-08-2014 , 05:10 AM

#253

Codecci

veteran

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,716

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pamik

is there anyone who won against HU snowie over larger sample? i find it so frustrating!

It's ridiculously easy and exploitable imo. It's basic strategy is actually quite good and if you play like a regular match and take Snowie as someone who is real person and is going to play based on reads, then it can hold it's own (kind of). But when you know it's GTO bot who doesn't do adjusting and start doing out-of-the-box extreme things like 3betting 100%, cbetting 100% and ton of overshoveing as a bluffs it becomes really easy to beat.

Fun program, but kind of scammish advertising.

Quote

01-08-2014 , 05:16 AM

#254

Babarberousse

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 1,752

I agree 100% with you.
That's why I'm asking if snowie has been able to beat any "decent" player.

Quote

01-08-2014 , 07:26 PM

#255

Pamik

centurion

Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 114

Quote:

Originally Posted by Codecci

yeah you are right...i didnt try to experiment with funky bet sizes and unortodox strategies, i just played my normal game, what i considered optimal.

anyway i found several leaks. it will value bet thinly second and third pair on the river if flop and turn are checked but it will fold almost always to a C/R.
it will bet Qx or stronger on a QJT9x board but will fold 8x ,QJ or any hand weaker than a Kx to a C/R . Also folds too much to a flop c/r + turn bet and c/r on a paired flop.
i started crushing it in last 1000 hands

Quote

01-09-2014 , 09:19 AM

#256

Tolmuahv

stranger

Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 10

I played 1348 hands for a winrate of 197bb/100 and total winnings of ca 2600bb. Seemed extremely trivial setup and easy to exploit. Willing to take a bet that I can beat it 10,000bb within a single session.

Quote

01-09-2014 , 06:46 PM

#257

Rant

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,436

Y'all realize that Snowie is not complete or static, correct?

IMO if Snowie has leaks it is more likely that she's undertrained in certain areas as opposed to the methodology being fundamentally flawed.

Hopefully the Snowie team will add strategies to Snowie's training opponents that poke at the leaks people are exploiting.

Quote

01-09-2014 , 09:11 PM

#258

RustyBrooks

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 24,647

Talking about the methodology is pointless. I have a methodology that is 100% perfect - brute force. If I search the solution space exhaustively, I can guarantee you I will find a solution. Eventually.

So methodology is not the issue. Results ARE the issue. A method that will someday produce a GTO solution is in no way interesting. Until it does actually get close.

Claiming to have a solution to HU NLHE, or even having something really close, is an extremely remarkable claim and should be treated as such. Claiming to being close to a solution for 6max NLHE is beyond that by many orders of magnitude. Also known as "lying"

Quote

01-10-2014 , 03:36 AM

#259

ExaMeter

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 3,984

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rant

Hopefully the Snowie team will add strategies to Snowie's training opponents that poke at the leaks people are exploiting.

hopefully? do you realize that snowie succeeding would kill poker like the original snowie killed backgammon?

Quote

01-10-2014 , 04:36 AM

#260

Babarberousse

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 1,752

Online texas hold'em WILL die eventually. Though not because of snowie, but because of actual strong AIs (I don't believe in snowie's method 100bb deep).

We'll switch to PLO. It will also die at some point. Then we'll invent new games, that's evolution.

Quote

01-11-2014 , 06:30 AM

#261

ph2133868789

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,705

Selection bias is probably playing a substantial role in their "results." Good players find weaknesses and lose interest rather quickly.

"PokerSnowie plays according to optimal game theory. This means its gameplay is perfect..."

Definitely a scam.

Quote

01-11-2014 , 01:06 PM

#262

chinagambler

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 2,572

[IMG]http://s10.************/ngg62j2a0/Screen_Shot_2014_01_12_at_12_49_38_am.jpg[/IMG]
lol at this. Snowie shoves K high but checks behind with any full house worst than 666KK (it checks behind even if it has the Q). Hero is supposed to fold 88 or worst to a pot sized bet even though villain has K high 89% of the time.

Quote

01-11-2014 , 07:09 PM

#263

zachvac

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 13,775

Seriously wtf stop helping them.

Quote

01-13-2014 , 09:44 AM

#264

fontaine

journeyman

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 224

I received an email from the Snowie team today, saying that they have updated the Snowie engine after reviewing my play - and they offered me a one year free subscription if I can still beat Snowie for >5bb/100 over 6k hands. I guess I will give it a go when I have time for it

Quote

01-13-2014 , 10:41 AM

#265

sojo.

stranger

Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 8

Quote:

Originally Posted by fontaine

Is this already applied? As they say on the comments section, a "new pokersnowie brain" will be released in the next few weeks.

http://www.pokersnowie.com/blog/2014...t#.UtP5afTuKSo

Quote

01-13-2014 , 11:07 AM

#266

Mr Blonde

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 3,749

Yeh it's awful nothing to see here please all forget about it

Spoiler:

Quote

01-13-2014 , 11:26 AM

#267

MidniteToker

grinder

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 600

Quote:

Originally Posted by sojo.

a "new pokersnowie brain" will be released in the next few weeks.

The title of the pokersnowie site:

Quote:

PokerSnowie - Play perfect Game Theory Optimal (GTO) poker

How much more GTO can perfect GTO get? Are they going for GTOO after? Is GTRRROTTWS (game theory really really really optimal this time we swear) in their future plans?

****ing marketing hacks.

Quote

01-13-2014 , 11:44 AM

#268

Babarberousse

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 1,752

Quote:

Originally Posted by fontaine

Can you ask them to stop scamming the poker noobs if you beat it for 10bb/100 ?

Quote

01-13-2014 , 03:03 PM

#269

zachvac

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 13,775

I mean you guys playing it are justifying their tactics. Claim to have solved nlhe, then get people to do the work getting it closer to gto for free. Like do you guys playing snowie realize how ****ing valuable your services are to them? Then they're going to turn around and use those services to make money and kill poker simultaneously, and you won't see a dime.

Quote

01-13-2014 , 04:21 PM

#270

andyg2001

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 2,905

Quote:

Originally Posted by andyg2001

Here's an example of where pokersnowie is weak. There's a half pot open on the btn then a pot sized 3 bet from the CO which is called. You can see the range which Pokersnowie will bet vs a check, and what happens on the same flop vs. a min donk.

Pokersnowie should raise almost as much as it's betting here to avoid being exploited.

The update has clearly taken effect this is the same spot.

Quote

01-13-2014 , 04:52 PM

#271

ExaMeter

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 3,984

Oh boy.
Can everybody finally listen to what zachvac says and let this thread die already?

sent from phone

Quote

01-13-2014 , 04:58 PM

#272

mme

old hand

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 1,668

Quote:

Originally Posted by ExaMeter

Can everybody finally listen to what zachvac says and let this thread die already?

what difference would it make?

Quote

01-13-2014 , 06:13 PM

#273

Rant

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,436

Quote:

Originally Posted by ExaMeter

hopefully? do you realize that snowie succeeding would kill poker like the original snowie killed backgammon?

I am not a Luddite.

Quote

01-13-2014 , 07:17 PM

#274

ExaMeter

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 3,984

Quote:

Originally Posted by mme

what difference would it make?

what are you really trying to say here?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rant

I am not a Luddite.

neither am i. i am also not offended or otherwise emotionally invested with pokersnowie existing nor it getting better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zachvac

this however is exactly why its unwise to help a for profit enterprise to be their unpaid QA guys.
especially if you earn money playing poker.

if you dont and being the one that finds a "bug" gives you some kind of satisfaction then thats totally your prerogative.

its also your prerogative to help the company that will eventually make you unemployed or broke if you are making money from poker. its just incredibly stupid.

Quote

01-13-2014 , 07:51 PM

#275

Pamik

centurion

Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 114

Quote:

Originally Posted by ExaMeter

what are you really trying to say here?

neither am i. i am also not offended or otherwise emotionally invested with pokersnowie existing nor it getting better.

this however is exactly why its unwise to help a for profit enterprise to be their unpaid QA guys.
especially if you earn money playing poker.

if you dont and being the one that finds a "bug" gives you some kind of satisfaction then thats totally your prerogative.

its also your prerogative to help the company that will eventually make you unemployed or broke if you are making money from poker. its just incredibly stupid.

i hope holdem die soon, and than some new game become popular, where no one knows what is optimal play, and there are no softwares or training videos. it would be epic survival of the fittest. some will get broke, some will get rich very quick, but it will happen. no game will last forever, but people will always gamble.

Quote

Page 11 of 93

First

6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 21 31 61

Last

Post Reply Subscribe

...

Page 11 of 93

First

6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 21 31 61

Last