Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
Pls give some advice about my hand chart Pls give some advice about my hand chart

12-18-2017 , 05:50 AM
I use Matthew Janda<Applicatioins of No-limit Hold'em>'s theory to build a hand chart,but my assumptions is a bit different.
I first build a raise first in range.(I collect 22 loose aggressive player's data from HM2, and simulate a basic raise first in range). After that I use this range to construct a flatting range and 3 bet range.
Can you guys give me some advice about my hand chart?
pls check it out for me, thank you

https://picload.org/view/ddgadlwa/20...73948.png.html
Pls give some advice about my hand chart Quote
12-18-2017 , 10:44 AM
What are the bet sizes? I'll assume it's 2.5x and a standard 3b size.

The ranges look a bit weird to me, even though I didn't' spend too much time checking them out.

For example, from button, you seem to be playing pretty much the same % of hands vs UTG than vs CO, even though CO is opening ~2 times as many hands.

I looked at BTN vs CO range. It looks decent, but I don't really understand the logic you used for selecting those exact 3b/call hands. It seems like you were trying to "forcefully" balance the range, which probably isn't the best approach.
-You have AA in your calling range, which seems sub optimal, since you're 3betting around 12%. You're very vulnerable to 4bets with that range, especially since you aren't 3 betting AJs/KQs.
-It's probably not optimal to call 22, or 3bet 33-55 as default.
-You put AJo in both ranges.
-You didn't put KQo anywhere.
-some other inconsistencies with your suited broadways.

I'm not gonna go through all ranges, but I think the ranges and frequencies are pretty good overall for a base strategy. It would be optimal to use some sort of mixed strategy for most of the hands in those ranges though. You're being too specific with hands imo, it's weird.
Pls give some advice about my hand chart Quote
12-18-2017 , 03:33 PM
Without looking very closely at the ranges, I'm not a fan. It looks like there's too much flatting in spots where it's not a good idea to flat very often. Janda himself admits the pre-flop section in his first book is not very good, and - like me - he's more likely to direct players to Snowie's pre-flop advisor today: https://www.pokersnowie.com/preflop-advisor.html (click the Start button on the left, or download the mobile version).
If you're playing against very weak opponents there's still scope for calling quite wide in CO and BTN, but most of the crushers use a strategy that is closer to "3-bet or fold" in every position except the BB. FWIW, in every position apart from the BB, where I call very wide, my overall cold-call frequency is <7%. In MP and CO, it's about 4%.

Since you use HEM, run the "cold-call" quick filter and look at your positional report. The numbers you see should be green, but the vast majority of players lose money by calling too wide pre-flop.
Pls give some advice about my hand chart Quote
12-18-2017 , 04:46 PM
I not a fan of flatting AA . You miss too much value of the times you go all in preflop.
Pls give some advice about my hand chart Quote
12-18-2017 , 04:47 PM
And you know the feeling of flopping top set : **** i block everything
Pls give some advice about my hand chart Quote
12-18-2017 , 04:52 PM
For sure everytime you flat AA and opponent has KK QQ JJ is a disaster the deeper you get. I think it kill anywinrate
Pls give some advice about my hand chart Quote
12-18-2017 , 04:54 PM
Bjt I would agree to flat a 4bet because it s so difficult to defend there. Butnot all tje time
Pls give some advice about my hand chart Quote
12-19-2017 , 03:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZKesic
What are the bet sizes? I'll assume it's 2.5x and a standard 3b size.

The ranges look a bit weird to me, even though I didn't' spend too much time checking them out.

For example, from button, you seem to be playing pretty much the same % of hands vs UTG than vs CO, even though CO is opening ~2 times as many hands.

I looked at BTN vs CO range. It looks decent, but I don't really understand the logic you used for selecting those exact 3b/call hands. It seems like you were trying to "forcefully" balance the range, which probably isn't the best approach.
-You have AA in your calling range, which seems sub optimal, since you're 3betting around 12%. You're very vulnerable to 4bets with that range, especially since you aren't 3 betting AJs/KQs.
-It's probably not optimal to call 22, or 3bet 33-55 as default.
-You put AJo in both ranges.
-You didn't put KQo anywhere.
-some other inconsistencies with your suited broadways.

I'm not gonna go through all ranges, but I think the ranges and frequencies are pretty good overall for a base strategy. It would be optimal to use some sort of mixed strategy for most of the hands in those ranges though. You're being too specific with hands imo, it's weird.
ZKesic,thank you for your reply and I am appreciate for your advice.
My assumption and work process behind that is:
-I sampled 17 loose aggressive players data(by HM2,5000hands) and construct a loose aggressive player's raise first in range(https://picload.org/view/ddgooliw/20...547.png.html);
-Raise first in with 2.5BB and 3bet with 9BB;
-Remaining players should 3bet 26% frequencies against UTG open,28.5% against MP,31% against CO and 38% against BTN. Use 1-X^(1/remaining players) to work out the 3-betting percentage.
- UTG open with worst range(which fold to 3bet) and be called, UTG's EV against MP/CO/BTN are -2.22/-2.37/-2.65,MP's EV against CO/BTN -2.15/-2.44, CO's EV against BTN -2.31(the later position will not call with their bottom 30% range).
- Accord to the 3-betting percentage and EV above, use 1.5*(frequency of no player defend)+(average EV when called)(frequency called)-2.5*(3-betting frequency)=0 to sort out variable "frequency of called"
- I had found the 3 bet percentage and call percentage, the next move is to balance the flat&3betting range.

I agree with your advice that I was trying to "forcefully" balance the range.I distribute Flat and 3bet range have around 50% equity against open range(I know this assumption is look stupid ).
I still have not got any clue about distributing the flat and 3-betting range against open, how to build hand chart more GTO? Need more help.

Thanks again.
Pls give some advice about my hand chart Quote
12-19-2017 , 04:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtyMcFly
Without looking very closely at the ranges, I'm not a fan. It looks like there's too much flatting in spots where it's not a good idea to flat very often. Janda himself admits the pre-flop section in his first book is not very good, and - like me - he's more likely to direct players to Snowie's pre-flop advisor today: https://www.pokersnowie.com/preflop-advisor.html (click the Start button on the left, or download the mobile version).
If you're playing against very weak opponents there's still scope for calling quite wide in CO and BTN, but most of the crushers use a strategy that is closer to "3-bet or fold" in every position except the BB. FWIW, in every position apart from the BB, where I call very wide, my overall cold-call frequency is <7%. In MP and CO, it's about 4%.

Since you use HEM, run the "cold-call" quick filter and look at your positional report. The numbers you see should be green, but the vast majority of players lose money by calling too wide pre-flop.
Thank you ArtyMcFly. I agree that Matthew's in his book do not suggest spending too much time on preflop.

I had realized that my flatting range is too wide, I looked back and check the model, that might due to I used Loose aggressive player open range as assumption.

I will try Pokersnowie, and wish it could help to improve my hand chart.

Thank you again.
Pls give some advice about my hand chart Quote
12-19-2017 , 09:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingkong352
I not a fan of flatting AA . You miss too much value of the times you go all in preflop.
Thank you for your advice Kingkong352, I do agree that it's not a good idea to flat AA
Pls give some advice about my hand chart Quote
12-19-2017 , 09:37 PM
But I do think it can be done but not as a default and at the lowest frequency. I never do it. I m too scared my opponent has KK.

Exploitively, i see it vs an opponent who would fold to 3bet but go crazy postflop. I dont know. But in tournament I think it makes more sense with lower stack sizes.
Pls give some advice about my hand chart Quote
12-19-2017 , 09:39 PM
The problem is people usually dont stack much one pair hand in a single raised pot. So i dont like it
Pls give some advice about my hand chart Quote
12-20-2017 , 10:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingkong352
But I do think it can be done but not as a default and at the lowest frequency. I never do it. I m too scared my opponent has KK.

Exploitively, i see it vs an opponent who would fold to 3bet but go crazy postflop. I dont know. But in tournament I think it makes more sense with lower stack sizes.
Indeed, Aces sometimes have a inverse EV against particular range.
Pls give some advice about my hand chart Quote

      
m