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Old 07-17-2017, 06:54 AM   #126
Kelvis
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Re: NEW POKER VARIANT: The most skill-based poker game... What do you think of it?

All this time is far better spent in writing a solid simulator where you can test all sorts of things.
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Old 07-17-2017, 08:30 AM   #127
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Re: NEW POKER VARIANT: The most skill-based poker game... What do you think of it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackspoker View Post
Anybody has any idea what hands should I take at nil poker that have more than 50% equity(same as in poker and which else?)? I would assume all the hands that have more than 45% at poker, they have more than 50 percent equity at nil poker?
Why would you assume that? I have absolutely no idea what the answer is, but I certainly wouldn't assume anything.
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Old 07-17-2017, 01:43 PM   #128
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Re: NEW POKER VARIANT: The most skill-based poker game... What do you think of it?

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Originally Posted by blackspoker View Post
If I do understand what you are saying. Player B should play optimal against all-in?
Player B should call every hand that has more than 50 percent equity vs random(in both cases:nil poker and poker)?

For example: For poker(52-card deck) I pick hands that have more than 50% vs one player… Total devided by number of hands..to get average equity?From this site:
http://www.natesholdem.com/pre-flop-odds.php

Anybody has any idea what hands should I take at nil poker that have more than 50% equity(same as in poker and which else?)? I would assume all the hands that have more than 45% at poker, they have more than 50 percent equity at nil poker?
Yes, this would be too much unnecessary work. I made something a bit different but as good, just on a lot smaller scale.
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Old 07-17-2017, 01:44 PM   #129
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Re: NEW POKER VARIANT: The most skill-based poker game... What do you think of it?

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Old 07-17-2017, 01:47 PM   #130
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Re: NEW POKER VARIANT: The most skill-based poker game... What do you think of it?

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Originally Posted by blackspoker View Post
-Person A goes all-in every hand.

-Person B calls Person A´s allin with AA or KK in texas holdem

-Person B calls Person A´s allin with AA, KK or QQ in nil holdem


- Odds of having KK or AA as hole cards are(at texas holdem):0,906 %
- Odds of having QQ, KK or AA as hole cards are(at Nil holdem):0,865%
- Odds numbers are aprox the same(favour texas holdem(over nil holdem))-same good card selection.



This is example what happens if Person B will call with his 0,906% best hands preflop(in both games).

NOTE:All the equities that I rounded are in favour of poker(52-card deck). If you see any wrong calculation(or if I missed anything), please feel free to tell. I will be more than happy to correct it. Thank you.
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Old 07-17-2017, 02:31 PM   #131
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Re: NEW POKER VARIANT: The most skill-based poker game... What do you think of it?

Why are you still making things up? ie calling ranges.
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Old 07-17-2017, 02:36 PM   #132
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Re: NEW POKER VARIANT: The most skill-based poker game... What do you think of it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackspoker View Post
I made a bit of a bug in the upper calculation...

Correction of calculations:


NOTE:All the equities that I rounded are in favour of poker(52-card deck). If you see any wrong calculation(or if I missed anything), please feel free to tell. I will be more than happy to correct it. Thank you.
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Old 07-17-2017, 04:01 PM   #133
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Re: NEW POKER VARIANT: The most skill-based poker game... What do you think of it?

I don't even.....
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Old 07-17-2017, 09:43 PM   #134
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Re: NEW POKER VARIANT: The most skill-based poker game... What do you think of it?

wtf how did this get so long? By this logic, nlhe with equity chopping would be the most skill-based game. Or if we don't want to chop up pots nlhe where the hand which is better at the time automatically wins. Does anyone actually imagine that would be a better game? You're using ridiculously bad metrics to justify a preconceived belief that isn't true.
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Old 07-18-2017, 06:06 AM   #135
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Re: NEW POKER VARIANT: The most skill-based poker game... What do you think of it?

I have to say that this is more than enough to determine that nil holdem is more skill-based than texas holdem:

1.)
I wrote a lot about new poker variant.

2.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackspoker View Post
Calculations of example from post #91

3.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackspoker View Post
Additions to calculations:

1.)With 25bb each



Diff EV(buy-in):4,218

2.)With 50 bb each




Diff EV(buy-in):18,202

Difference in buy-in(25 vs 50) is multiplier 2. If the poker would be same skill-based as NPoker there would be exactly x2 Diff EV(buy-in)for player B at Nil Poker(difference between A and B). If there is more than x2, the game is considered more skill-based(because both players are making ev+ calls; criteria from example). If this number is lower than 2, this means that Npoker is less skill based than poker.


18,202/4,218= 4,315;4,315 is more than 2


Nil Poker is more skill-based than poker (as holdem).
4.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackspoker View Post

Graph(just the look of the curve part)

5.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackspoker View Post

I do not feel like I have to explain it more(and I will not do that anymore). I believe those upper points has to be enough of evidence for everyone(they are good enough evidence for every person that I talked too). If you do not agree with me it is fine too. I do not care really. I came here to get some opinions(why this game is good, why not and so on; cons and pros; how would you play a game,…; and not to discuss if nil holdem is more skill-based than texas holdem).

Last edited by blackspoker; 07-18-2017 at 06:14 AM.
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Old 07-18-2017, 07:07 AM   #136
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Re: NEW POKER VARIANT: The most skill-based poker game... What do you think of it?

Ok since your standard of evidence is obviously pretty darn low can we change the title now? Can't believe it still says "most skill based poker game" without it being true.
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Old 07-19-2017, 07:30 AM   #137
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Re: NEW POKER VARIANT: The most skill-based poker game... What do you think of it?

I found this good article.
http://www.runitonce.com/chatter/a-poker-site-should/

Does nil poker fits this?You do not have to answer this. This is just a thought.

It really looks to me that some of you(not everybody included(big sorry for people who are not inlcuded); I think that this comunity is one of the smartest on the internet.) do not care about future of poker. I really can not understand this….

This new variant is not only »my« game, it is everybodies(possible win, win, win, win,..; even if I am wrong, at least I am discussing possible solutions),…Why would I defend this new variant here? I do not need to do that.

This is probably my last serious post in this thread…

Good job trolling me out of serious conversation. This is what some of you want right? Why would I defend something that is potentially good for everybody? You could just tell me that you do not want me to discuss this new poker variant here(and I would never mentioned this new poker variant again). Would have same effect.

This is only my opinion: Do you image how good comercial would be for this site, if we would actually find some possible future poker solution(i believe even discussing this is very good). Does not have to be nil poker,…maybe something else even better, different… But it really looks like some of you do not want this… I really do not understand this…but I do not care either..

Thank you for all the helping comments again. Some of you were really helpfull. I can not thank you enough.
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Old 08-03-2017, 07:58 AM   #138
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Re: NEW POKER VARIANT: The most skill-based poker game... What do you think of it?

Hello people,

Now I know all that I wanted to know about theory, marketing,... of Nil Poker. Now, I moved to the next and the final "problem", before this game will amaze you.

I have some questions about making online Nil Poker software. I do not know anything about programming.... I would appreciate all the help now... I hope it is fine that I opened new thread (as for it is not theory question):
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/45...-help-1681882/

Last edited by blackspoker; 08-03-2017 at 08:06 AM.
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Old 08-03-2017, 11:33 AM   #139
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Re: NEW POKER VARIANT: The most skill-based poker game... What do you think of it?

Just scanning through this thread...

One important issue. I see graphs, and therefore an implicit quantitative measurement concerning how "skill-based" a given poker is.

HOWEVER: This idea of "skill-based" has not been defined in a quantitative sense. If you want to back this idea up, you ought to start there. How do you measure the level of "skill" a given variant of poker offers? (hint: you should use a specific mathematical formulation, not a subjective and vague idea about what it means to you). Back this definition up with *why* this measurement actually means skill. If you get there, then maybe it would be reasonable to post things like what you think some graph showing how much skill there is in a game.
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Old 08-03-2017, 04:11 PM   #140
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Re: NEW POKER VARIANT: The most skill-based poker game... What do you think of it?

Don't bother because OP has no intention of proving anything. He says a random example of a calling range doing better in his game than NLH (even though they don't have the same equilibrium) is more than enough evidence so we can just suck it.

Also LOL at the whole "i wanna make a game but i cant program". This guy has no clue about game theory and no clue about programming, yet he wants to program a game.
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Old 08-03-2017, 07:05 PM   #141
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Re: NEW POKER VARIANT: The most skill-based poker game... What do you think of it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackspoker View Post
Hello people,

Now I know all that I wanted to know about theory, marketing,... of Nil Poker.
Of course you have.
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Old 08-04-2017, 07:51 AM   #142
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Re: NEW POKER VARIANT: The most skill-based poker game... What do you think of it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketzeroes View Post
Just scanning through this thread...

One important issue. I see graphs, and therefore an implicit quantitative measurement concerning how "skill-based" a given poker is.

HOWEVER: This idea of "skill-based" has not been defined in a quantitative sense. If you want to back this idea up, you ought to start there. How do you measure the level of "skill" a given variant of poker offers? (hint: you should use a specific mathematical formulation, not a subjective and vague idea about what it means to you). Back this definition up with *why* this measurement actually means skill. If you get there, then maybe it would be reasonable to post things like what you think some graph showing how much skill there is in a game.
Hello, pocketzeroes.

Thank you for you post. Really appreciate it. I really respect you. I think you are probably top 5 smart people on this forum and very constructive too (I can not tell you how helpful your posts are in this thread and in other threads too, for me; I hope you make a lot of money with poker).

I actually have to say that your post is amazing (very helpful). Agree with everything (I get it)… I believe if we are really smart and if we go from your post, than this becomes retorical question. I think your post is advice to me how to explain why nil holdem is more skill-based than texas holdem to some people (I do not care if some other people do not understand this). As you and others can see, there is so many wrong things written in this thread by some people (not by me). I am actually suprised how can some other people be so wrong, and that noone corrects them.. I would really like If you can check my PM… I finished discussing this Nil Poker theory in this thread.

Last edited by blackspoker; 08-04-2017 at 08:02 AM.
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Old 08-04-2017, 08:13 AM   #143
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Re: NEW POKER VARIANT: The most skill-based poker game... What do you think of it?

At this point I cannot think anything other than you're just a troll. Seriously nobody is this dumb.
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