Originally Posted by The_nutlow
Thanks for your response. Your suggestion about toy games helps quite a bit. In your example it is clear that it makes zero sense to call with a J. In essence that is the same with our suited connectors in my hand.
I therefore see more of the reasoning to defend hands so that he doesn't win by overbluffing. My mistake was that I thought about him bluffing with hands that already have the weaker part of my range beat. I thought that would make sense because it generates so many folds while otherwise I might bet and he has to fold. But essentially that is a different question (for him), if he starts bluffing with combo's that already beat a large part of my range, that is ineffective for villain although me not being able to bet is beneficial (in some sense it is kinda a blockbet then). Also he not necessarily has to fold, because all of a sudden these combo's are part of his MDF range.
I still have one question though, if villain adds only one combo that I beat with a large part of my range, all of a sudden a lot more of my ranges becomes relevant from a MDF standpoint. I feel you still get counterintuitive and wrong results, let me demonstrate by changing your toy game a bit.
Suppose villains full pot betrange is equal distributions of A, K, 9. Our range is equal distributions Q, J, T, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2 (10 combos for easy math and I disregarded chops). In this case only Q-T are relevant in our range for MDF, meaning we fold T, call half of J and all Q right?
However, suppose we edit one thing, above his 9 was essentially his bluff range, A and K his value. Suppose we add a 1 in his range. All of a sudden our entire 10 combo range becomes active. We should call 7+ given MDF, him bluffing with one extra combo all of a sudden results in us calling way more often and him getting a lot more value. So I feel in this case still not all combo's count. How do we solve this/what do I do wrong?
EDIT: I actually realized that in the latter case we actually are +EV in calling so much as far as I understand it, because if he has equal distributions we always win when he has a 1, that is 25 percent of the time. We win 3/5 if he has a 9 (as our Q, J, T beats it but 7, 8 not), that is an additional 3/5*0.25 is 15 percent. In total we win the pot 40 percent of the time instead of the needed 33 percent. I think this has to do with the non balancedness of his range/not completely pure value and bluffs.
In essence my point stands though in case he has 10 combos A, 10 combos K, 10 combos 9 and adds one single combo of 1. If our entire range becomes active due to that single combo, we are calling way to much, if you take the limit we end up winning 3/5*0.25 is 15 percent against his 9, a little more due to beating the one combo of 1. But that clearly is way less then the needed 33 percent.
EDIT2: In our toygame we have 14 different cards in a deck, adding the 1 made sense to avoid chops haha.