I've heard from many players to never open limp into pots. I've seen Hellmuth limp before but many people despise it. I understand by open limping you're not giving your opponent a chance to fold pre flop. Now i don't know whether to limp or never do it, it's always been a questioning topic for me

What exact format and situation are you talking about? Of course are good shorthanded/heads up tournament players limping in certain spots. Even gto solutions for many scenarios do alot of limping.

If you argue limping is bad in deepstacked games, yes. Saying limping should be generally avoided is just very superficial and terrible advice.

i think you meant to say it differently, but as is, oh the irony

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I'd conservatively estimate 95% of players who openlimp in non HU games are bad. But that doesn't mean openlimping is bad, it is just not easy to figure out good ranges for certain spots and u need to know what ure doing postflop to make openlimping good in these spots

lol ok. do you have any proof that "limping is bad in deepstacked games, yes"? sounds like "just very superficial and terrible advice" to me, hence the irony.

I see shortstack/shorthanded winning players limp way more than cashgame or mtt winning players. What is your point other than being a hypocrite? Proof? Just watch winners play...

What the avg decent reg does is not necessarily what's (theoretically) opt. Years ago, most HU regs argued having an openlimp range is either not necessary or bad. These days it's commonly agreed on that the opposite is true, both as part of some gto strat and as exploitative strat vs pop.

thanks for reminding me why i don't post in this sub anymore, i'm not into getting personal.

my point is very straightforward, you said limping in deepstacked nl is "bad" and that's simply wrong. your post shows that you wouldn't know why. and btw, you can find hhs in the recent hs threads where "winners play" and limp. gl

Theoretically optimal play features limping in certain spots (too numerous to detail). Exploitative play (e.g. against weak players) can also feature limping.
If you're relatively new to the game, you're probably best served by raising or folding in most spots, however, as it will reduce the size of your decision tree. That is to say, if you open limp, then you need to develop limp-reraising, limp-calling and limp-folding ranges, and that can get very complicated. Assuming you're a beginner, you can simplify your strat without losing much EV by just raising with any hand you want to play.

I suspect GTO involves a *lot* of limping in most formats.

Unless your rivals are passive (or easily trapped), limping makes poker harder to play. So you usually have to be better (GTO player is by definition perfect) or have passive opponents.

[Edit] I think I just said what the previous poster did, in different words.

Limping is good, especially bvb and HU, and in big ante mtts.

I am sorry if i did not go into detail what i think about limping in deepstacked games. I am not doubting that you can find spots like bvb where you can limp, etc... My main point was that it's bad to generally avoid limping. You just completely misunderstood my stance that it's okish not to limp in deepstacked games, whereas in shorthanded/stacked games not to limp is a huge leak. I am sorry for my imprecise formulation...
Instead of just discussing and talking about your view on the topic you attack a minor sidenote that wasn't even clearly formulated. I never said "it's bad".

convos like these are just confusing me. in my very first post ITT, I quoted this part of your first post

where you clearly say that limping in deepstacked games is bad. I didn't miss your stance at all because everything else you said makes sense, that's why I implied that you worded it imprecisely, saying

and so on. I'm not trying to attack you, I just wanted to clarify - as others have done in the meanwhile as well - that limping is good/optimal in a lot of deepstacked spots, some that are very obvious like sb vs bb, and others that might not seem obvious and in contrast to conventional 2p2 wisdom. peace

Never isn't a word we use in conjunction with poker.

- limp with a prospecting hand if you don't expect a raise to accomplish enough folds and you don't expect a raise after you

- limp with a monster if you think a raise will fold the rest of the table out. I limped with kings in my last session when it was folded to me in the SB and the guy in the BB wasn't the kinda cat to 3-bet me even if he thought I was on a steal. I didn't take down a monster pot by any stretch but I won 7 more BB than I would have had I raised preflop.

- limp with extremely aggressive players that act after you at a table, especially if your opponent(s) would interpret a raise from you as real strength. You can then reraise if the flop looks to go multi-way, or consider smooth calling or raising if it looks to go heads up to the flop.

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I have open limped before, but as a standard I don't really do it. Raising it up is best by the test.

Some people ***** about open limping like it is such a terrible play and only fish do that. For the most part, yeah. If I see someone open limp I'm usually suspecting that they are a fish, but this isn't always the case. There are good players that open limp. They aren't very common though imo.

Some people also complain about opening speculative hands from EP. If I open 53s people go "lol terribad", but if the circumstances call for it then it is correct. A bunch of people on 2+2 act like poker is solved and we know the GTO strategy to win. We don't though. Poker isn't dead yet.

For what it is worth, I don't limp while playing HU poker unless stacks start getting short. I am a firm believer in raising pretty much everything over 30BBs.

In BvB I believe a mixed strategy of limping and making it 3x is solid. There should also be some hands which are limp re-raised. A lot of players I see raising every limped blind. The check/raise stops them.


A powerful move at a full ring table is to limp-reraise a speculative hand vs. a reg. Chances are they will put you on a premium hand if they think you're a fish.