Recently i have had problens with bots in the game , basically , at wpn they are all bots and some fishs and some BE or small looser/winner rakeback regs , and i was thinking , we usually think that when we know what are the other player stats and how he is gonna play we are supposed to know how to play against then right? , but in this case i really had no idea how could i beat those bots , and i aways thought , what are those bots doing? , how did they come to the conclusion of openning x% , cbeting y% etc.. , and is it possible that the bots basically have the game pretty much solved?. one thing i know for sure , lets say he oppens 50% range from the sb with a 3bb size and we are in BB , basically when we 3bet to 10bb we need for him to fold about 70% if we want to pretty much make print money from the preflop ignoring post flop , but , of course he doesnt simply fold 70% he probably fold around 50% or even less... , my question is , what if we only 3bet with top range AQ+ JJ+ , since this bot plays the same way no matter what he would keep not folding the same 50% of the time , so , would we make money if we only play the nuts preflop and post flop against these bots? , this was just an example but every single stats on those bots are not exploitative , they fold very little to cbets , donk bets , raises etc .. , but i feel like even though the bots aways play very loose and never fold , if we try to counter play by only raising/beting/opening with good hands , they would still make money because we would just never try to steal the pot from then , and the money made only with the Aces etc.. would not be enough to cover the losses, what are you guys thoughts on that?

Use Magic 8-ball.

My guess is the bots don't solve the games they're just using a precomputed strategies.

Best way to beat the bots is constantly report them.

This. And move to a site not called WPN.
Also, use paragraphs. Bots hate it when you use paragraphs instead of walls of text.

Believe me, as someone who has been experimenting with teaching computers to play poker for 10 years, bots do NOT have the game solved.

[However, bots have been known to post to forums. And if I'm a bot, clearly it would be in my best interest to deny that bots have solved poker.]

No, but seriously, bots make money by being just enough better than the average (bad) player.

Oh, and if you're still concerned that bots have conquered the game, just play PLO. Bots suck at PLO. (for now!)

Yea maybe search "plo bot pokerstars" and report back.

Maybe but as someone that has experimented with teaching computers to play for 10 years you should know that one of the most important aspects of a bot is that it always does what it's supposed to do thus removing the human element of emotion.

It really seems that you're not that informed about the current bot situation.

What does that mean paragraphs?

It was an attempt at a joke. A paragraph is a section of text that is followed by a "line break" to separate a string of ideas into manageable chunks. OP didn't press ENTER while typing his wall of text, which meant he only used one dense paragraph that was hard to read.

This is a new paragraph. I left a gap after the first section.

This is a paragraph too.

Bye!

Where can we get more informed about how they work?

There are many flops, positions, and bet sizes to program lines for. How can there exist bots that don't just lose money to rake / pros?


There's no way a bot has precomputated strats for 10% pot size bet, 15%, etc, on all the possible positional matchups / flops. How do they simplify this?

There are 1755 strategically different flops. Do they have a solution for all of these?


It feels like if someone knows there is a bot, a pro should aim to sit with it as much as possible as it WILL have leaks and it won't adapt. Being able to go 100% exploitation without fear of retaliation is a license to print money. So how would a bot go about protecting itself vs pros?

I am not sure if this is how it works but bots don't have to do the same thing solvers do. They're not looking for perfect solution to all possible outcomes, they just need to know how to deal with the current information they have to spit out a reasonable answer.

Your other issues can be easily dealt with as well if the bot owner or the bot itself understands anything about table selection.

The most basic bots use "natural language" code that looks something like:
IF Hero has OESD BET 3/4 pot.
IF Hero has FD BET 3/4 pot.
IF Hero has GUTSHOT bet 1/2 pot.

It's actually quite hard to beat a bot that just plays "ABC poker", as it never gets fancy or tilt-spews.

I'm sure it's easy enough to insert a pseudo RNG into the code such that it only takes 'default' actions a random proportion of the time, thus making it a little less predictable. The code could also be tweaked to have things like "IF hero has bottom pair PLUS backdoor flush draw, then CHECK-RAISE, if no BDFD, just CALL".

It doesn't need a full solution to make "pretty good" decisions.

A more complicated bot could be wired up to pre-computed solutions. (Some people have literally run every flop for BTN v BB in Pio/GTO+/Monker, to find out the optimal c-bet strat, and have the frequencies stored in a spreadsheet that the bot can look up. This is basically what Snowie and MyPokerSolver.com do. They react instantly, because they already have a strategy for every situation.)