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 01-12-2018, 06:12 AM #1 David Sklansky Administrator     Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 14,090 Fun Question #2 Two experts are playing heads up PLO with unlimited stacks plus a wrinkle. One of the players has two known cards . Who is the favorite in each of these scenarios: The two cards are two random aces. The two cards are two black aces. The two cards are two random kings The two cards are two black kings.
 01-12-2018, 10:20 AM #2 just_grindin Pooh-Bah   Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 4,485 Re: Fun Question #2 With infinite stack sizes and how infrequently suits would play into it I would think the player with information about 2 of his opponent's cards would always be at an advantage even if the opponent only knows the ranks and not the suits.
 01-12-2018, 03:35 PM #3 phunkphish veteran     Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,763 Re: Fun Question #2 If the random aces are faceup, how does that differ from having 2 black aces faceup?
01-12-2018, 06:39 PM   #4
David Sklansky

Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,090
Re: Fun Question #2

Quote:
 Originally Posted by phunkphish If the random aces are faceup, how does that differ from having 2 black aces faceup?
oops. fixing it.

 01-13-2018, 05:53 AM #5 browni3141 old hand   Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: South Florida Posts: 1,666 Re: Fun Question #2 I am not a PLO expert but I think the player with exposed cards would be disadvantaged in every case. Really the only board where the AA player has a nut advantage will be Ax boards and non-paired flush boards. On all other boards it will be hard for AAxx to realize it’s showdown equity when it’s hard to have the nuts. Similarly, in Holden with arbitrarily large stacks I think AA face up against random cards is losing assuming it’s not all in pre.
01-14-2018, 04:18 AM   #6
R Gibert

Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 926
Re: Fun Question #2

Quote:
 Originally Posted by David Sklansky Two experts are playing heads up PLO with unlimited stacks plus a wrinkle. One of the players has two known cards . Who is the favorite in each of these scenarios: The two cards are two random aces. The two cards are two black aces. The two cards are two random kings The two cards are two black kings.
Neither is the favorite.

With infinite stacks, you can bet or call an infinite amount of money and still have an infinite amount of money left behind. If you lose, so what? If you win, so what? Both players will wind up with the same stacks as before regardless.

People who post questions about infinite stacks should be banned.

01-14-2018, 08:03 AM   #7
BigFredy007
journeyman

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Poker Heaven
Posts: 221
Re: Fun Question #2

Quote:
 Originally Posted by R Gibert Neither is the favorite. People who post questions about infinite stacks should be banned.
People who think infinity - infinity has to be equal infinity and act like they are smart should be banned and revisit school

Last edited by BigFredy007; 01-14-2018 at 08:18 AM.

01-14-2018, 05:27 PM   #8
David Sklansky

Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,090
Re: Fun Question #2

Quote:
 Originally Posted by browni3141 I am not a PLO expert but I think the player with exposed cards would be disadvantaged in every case. Really the only board where the AA player has a nut advantage will be Ax boards and non-paired flush boards. On all other boards it will be hard for AAxx to realize it’s showdown equity when it’s hard to have the nuts. Similarly, in Holden with arbitrarily large stacks I think AA face up against random cards is losing assuming it’s not all in pre.
Aces definitely lose in pot limit holdem. But they win easily in limit.

 Yesterday, 05:55 AM #9 R Gibert adept   Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 926 Re: Fun Question #2 Consider the set of integers. This set can be divided into 2 infinite disjoint sets e.g. even numbers and odd numbers. These in turn can be divided in a similar fashion as well and so on, etc. You can do the same with an infinite stack as well. You split it into 2 infinite sets of chips. Do all your betting and/or calling with just one of these sets and keep the other behind in case you lose. If you "win" nothing is really gained. If you "lose" nothing is really lost. You still have the remaining infinite set of chips. People rely on their intuition to grok infinity, but unfortunately infinity is completely alien to the human experience. Even a relatively puny number like a billion is too much for a human to truly grok. So it should not be too surprising that people lead themselves astray when they talk about infinity.

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