Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
Designing 3!,4!,5! ranges for GTO play Designing 3!,4!,5! ranges for GTO play

08-12-2018 , 11:46 AM
6-MAX:
Assuming we're UTG and getting 3!. If i play 100% GTO i would not adapt my ranges no matter how often my opponent 3bets?

So if i raise to 3BB, get 3! to 9BB and have to defend 1/3 of my range, i will design a 4! range and a flatting range and not adapt these ranges to whether he 3! 5% or 15% and only look at what my original raising range is. Is that correct or am i missunderstanding here?

[I 'm aware of the fact some players elect to not 4b at all from UTG, which can be reasonable at limits i don't play at the moment.]

Talking from a purely theoretical point of view, not looking at what most profitable is.

Thanks in advance
Designing 3!,4!,5! ranges for GTO play Quote
08-12-2018 , 01:17 PM
When you open raise from utg6max, there are 5 players yet to act that could have good hands. Your opening range should reflect this vulnerability; if your range is too wide you'll end up facing many 3 bets and 4 bets that you cannot profitably continue against.

If your range is sufficiently strong from utg, I would think that adhering to minimum defense frequency is a mistake.

Quote:
So if i raise to 3BB, get 3! to 9BB and have to defend 1/3 of my range, i will design a 4! range and a flatting range and not adapt these ranges to whether he 3! 5% or 15% and only look at what my original raising range is. Is that correct or am i missunderstanding here?
Ok lets do worst case scenario:

raise 3bb, HJ 3 bets 9bb, folds around.

Since the ability to stand up to such action is, or should be, built into our utg opening range for the reasons above, I'm not going to adhere to minimum defense with my range. Here's what I do here:

opening range: 55+, A2s+, A5o, ATo+, K9s+, KQo, QTs+, J9s+, T9s, 98s, 87s. This range contains 224 combos and is 16.89% of starting hands.

after the 9bb 3bet, we're getting 13.5:6. 6/19.5 = 30.77% investment. So the question is which hands can realize 30.77% equity or more?

Well we're out of position so raw equity calculators will not tell us which hands are profitable, but if we assume that the positional advantage is worthy of a 10% shift in equity then we can get somewhere. Note that giving 5% equity to my opponent results in a 10% shift:

Pretend that the 3 bettor has this 3 betting range:

JJ+, AQs+, AKo, A5s, KQs. I think this is pretty strong; 52 combos; 3.92% of starting hands.

These are my raw equities:

A5o: 30% = fold
ATo: 31.5% = fold
AJo: 31.6% = fold
AQo: 35.6% = very close, I'd call.
KQo: 27% = fold
K9s: 29% = fold
KTs: 30% = fold
KJs: 30% = fold
KQs: 32% = fold
A2s: 33% = fold
A3s: 33.5% = fold
A4s: 33.8% = fold
A5s: 34.5% = very close, I'd fold
A6s: 33.8% = fold
A7s: 34.25% = meh, fold
A8s: 34.3% = fold
A9s: 34.3% = fold
ATs: 35.1% = very close, I'd call.
55: 37.3% = I'd call.
87s: 31.7% = fold
98s: 31% = fold
T9s: 30.9% = fold
JTs: 31.2% = fold
QJs: 30.6% = fold
KQs: 32.15% = fold

That leaves my continuing range as 55+, AQo+, ATs+, which is 100 combos.

100/224 = 44.6% of my range.

Since HJ is risking 9 to win 4.5? Your minimum defense frequency is 1/3, (9/13.5 = 2/3) then I'm calling more than enough to keep from having to fold too much.
Designing 3!,4!,5! ranges for GTO play Quote
08-12-2018 , 04:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoostedMonkey
6-MAX:
Assuming we're UTG and getting 3!. If i play 100% GTO i would not adapt my ranges no matter how often my opponent 3bets?
Incorrect.
Since it is a multiplayer game, each position will have a different "GTO" 3-bet range. MP will 3-bet at a very low frequency, but CO and BTN and SB will have ever increasing 3-betting frequencies, because they already know other people have folded, or because they don't want to call and get squeezed. The BB might have an even smaller 3-betting frequency than MP, because he can close the action.
Since each villain in each position has a different 3-betting range, there is an optimal range for 4-betting or calling against each player. i.e. Your strategy when faced by a 3-bet by CO will be quite different to the one you use when getting 3-bet by BB. You can't identify a strict ratio or percentage that works when faced by all 3-bets.

Last edited by ArtyMcFly; 08-12-2018 at 04:59 PM.
Designing 3!,4!,5! ranges for GTO play Quote
08-12-2018 , 05:45 PM
Thanks for the fast replies, that was such good input!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob148
When you open raise from utg6max, there are 5 players yet to act that could have good hands. Your opening range should reflect this vulnerability; if your range is too wide you'll end up facing many 3 bets and 4 bets that you cannot profitably continue against.

If your range is sufficiently strong from utg, I would think that adhering to minimum defense frequency is a mistake.


Pretend that the 3 bettor has this 3 betting range:

JJ+, AQs+, AKo, A5s, KQs. I think this is pretty strong; 52 combos; 3.92% of starting hands.


That leaves my continuing range as 55+, AQo+, ATs+, which is 100 combos.

100/224 = 44.6% of my range.

Since HJ is risking 9 to win 4.5? Your minimum defense frequency is 1/3, (9/13.5 = 2/3) then I'm calling more than enough to keep from having to fold too much.
Thank you very much. That did help me a lot in understanding how to construct a range and contructing versus diffrent 3! percentages.

@ArtyMcFly "You can't identify a strict ratio or percentage that works when faced by all 3-bets." You answered my question without me knowing how to formulise it. Ty!
Designing 3!,4!,5! ranges for GTO play Quote
08-16-2018 , 02:55 PM
As a general rule of thumb, continue with approximately 50% of your opening range facing a 3 bet. Slightly tighter oop, slightly wider ip. Sizing matters as well.

If you want to crush 6 max games, it is worth going into more detail and design precise range from each position vs each position

MDF is deceptive in this spot.

1. It is shared a bit ..when you open LJ..HJ bets..co btn sb bb will each play top 3-4% of their hands typically. So they cumulatively fold about 86% of times. So you can fold a bit more than MDF

2. If you only continue with 4 bet or fold, then MDF is more relevant. If you continue as flat call, the 3 bettor gets to realize more than his fair share of equity because he has position and initiative. So when you continue with a mix of flat call and 4 bet, you would have to have more than MDF continues.

Last edited by iamallin; 08-16-2018 at 03:01 PM.
Designing 3!,4!,5! ranges for GTO play Quote

      
m