Checking the river oop with 100% intention of calling river bet vs betting river and getting raised with the intention of calling 100%



Is this pot control????

Arguments and reasoning please

If you have a bluffcatcher it doesn't make sense to bet.

Pot control is in theory a pointless and dumb concept.

Well what if you’re playing PLO and you’re HU by the river.
You went backdoor king high flush and you feel that your opponent’s range could include the nut flush draw in his holdings so you check the river oop with intention of calling river bet 100% but you refrain from betting because you don’t want to give villain the opportunity to raise your river bet hence controlling the pot.

Is this pot control?

The question "is this pot control" is not really a useful one, I think this is what ZKesic is getting at. The question should be "is checking and planning to call a raise a good idea" or "does it make more money than betting and calling or betting and folding"

Not betting makes the potential final size of the pot smaller, yes, but this doesn't mean it's your best option. In this particular case it might be, because you'll always get raised by the nuts, will often get folds from worse hands, and can sometimes induce a bet if you check (either a bluff or a thin value bet). But the fact that it might be the best option isn't because of the vague notion of "pot control"

It depends on the exact spot.

If flop went check-check and the turn is check-check, then even in PLO I'd assume that with the second nuts bet calling is usually the better play.

"Pot control" is pretty much just simplifying some poker decisions that shouldn't be simplified.

You should aim at always playing the hand in a way that has the higher EV, not in the way that makes the pot the smallest. There are definitely many spots in which you don't have the nuts, but it is still optimal to make the pot big.

Agree with what's been said above. To clarify further about bet/calling versus check/calling, you have to consider whether or not your hand is strong enough to bet and be called by weaker hands. If you're not betting because you're afraid your opponent can have the nuts, you're missing substantial value when your opponent holds a hand they would've called with, but one that is not strong enough to bet behind when you check.

In your example with the king high flush, your decision to check essentially turns your K-high flush into a super-strong bluff-catcher; which it isn't, since it has enough value to be bet. It only truly becomes a bluff catcher when your opponent raises the river after you bet.

When I use pot control it's to check turn and plan on calling river. That usually gives them a chance to bluff.