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Old 08-05-2020, 09:45 AM   #1
R1zxo
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Check raising

Should you be more inclined to check raise with range advantage or the nut advantage?
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Old 08-05-2020, 11:52 AM   #2
MicroDonkYT
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Re: Check raising

Depends on the spot, but there are a ton of spots where it doesn't matter. If you look at BB vs BTN, on most boards, you have neither, but still end up XR a ton because you are at a range and nut disadvantage and the only way to defend is to overfold a lot (compared to MDF) and XR a bunch of your continuing range.
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Old 08-05-2020, 03:15 PM   #3
tombos21
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Re: Check raising

Nut advantage.

When you check-raise you want to polarize over your opponent's betting range. It's much harder to do this if you don't have any nutted hands.
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Old 08-05-2020, 10:55 PM   #4
MicroDonkYT
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Re: Check raising

Quote:
Originally Posted by tombos21 View Post
Nut advantage.

When you check-raise you want to polarize over your opponent's betting range. It's much harder to do this if you don't have any nutted hands.
This isn't really true. K72r BB vs BTN SRP. We have nut and range disadvantage, but still end up XR quite a merged range vs a range bet.
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Old 08-06-2020, 01:37 AM   #5
1llegAl
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Re: Check raising

Quote:
Originally Posted by MicroDonkYT View Post
This isn't really true. K72r BB vs BTN SRP. We have nut and range disadvantage, but still end up XR quite a merged range vs a range bet.
X/R merged vs merged range is what Clarke Peter suggests in his FTG course but not going into much details how to play turns and rivers after you x/r is called and you have 2/3 pair.
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Old 08-06-2020, 05:30 AM   #6
tombos21
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Re: Check raising

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Originally Posted by MicroDonkYT View Post
This isn't really true. K72r BB vs BTN SRP. We have nut and range disadvantage, but still end up XR quite a merged range vs a range bet.
Yeah I've seen how solvers behave against rangebets and agree that the XR range is quite merged. But in that spot ranges are so wide that even hands like 7x have significant equity.

Let me amend my answer.

Nut advantage is more important for creating polarized raising ranges. You can't polarize if your entire range is showdown value, even if you have a range advantage. You need some hands that dominate.

Since most check-raises are polarizing, I stand by my point that nut advantage is overall more important than range advantage for the purposes of check-raising.
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Old 08-11-2020, 09:52 AM   #7
Shipnickle
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Re: Check raising

I agree with tombos21 that nut advantage increases our x/r frequency more than equity advantage alone.

I also agree with MicroDonkYT that solver likes to have a small merged x/r range on almost any board. In the example 7x or 2x hands usually have the property of some backdoor equity. 2x will be turned into a bluff more often than 7x on later streets, given it's x/r on the flop.

It all comes down to frequencies and tombos21 is right that nut advantage matters the most in terms of x/r frequencies. It also matters if OOP has a donking range or not. If OOP has a donking range, the checking range is a bit weaker.
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