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08-05-2020 , 09:45 AM

R1zxo

enthusiast

Join Date: Apr 2020 Posts: 77

Should you be more inclined to check raise with range advantage or the nut advantage?

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08-05-2020 , 11:52 AM

MicroDonkYT

adept

Join Date: Jan 2020 Posts: 817

Depends on the spot, but there are a ton of spots where it doesn't matter. If you look at BB vs BTN, on most boards, you have neither, but still end up XR a ton because you are at a range and nut disadvantage and the only way to defend is to overfold a lot (compared to MDF) and XR a bunch of your continuing range.

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08-05-2020 , 03:15 PM

tombos21

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2018 Posts: 2,045

Nut advantage.

When you check-raise you want to polarize over your opponent's betting range. It's much harder to do this if you don't have any nutted hands.

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08-05-2020 , 10:55 PM

MicroDonkYT

adept

Join Date: Jan 2020 Posts: 817

Quote:

Originally Posted by tombos21

Nut advantage.

When you check-raise you want to polarize over your opponent's betting range. It's much harder to do this if you don't have any nutted hands.

This isn't really true. K72r BB vs BTN SRP. We have nut and range disadvantage, but still end up XR quite a merged range vs a range bet.

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08-06-2020 , 01:37 AM

1llegAl

centurion

Join Date: Mar 2020 Posts: 160

Quote:

Originally Posted by MicroDonkYT

This isn't really true. K72r BB vs BTN SRP. We have nut and range disadvantage, but still end up XR quite a merged range vs a range bet.

X/R merged vs merged range is what Clarke Peter suggests in his FTG course but not going into much details how to play turns and rivers after you x/r is called and you have 2/3 pair.

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08-06-2020 , 05:30 AM

tombos21

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2018 Posts: 2,045

Quote:

Originally Posted by MicroDonkYT

This isn't really true. K72r BB vs BTN SRP. We have nut and range disadvantage, but still end up XR quite a merged range vs a range bet.

Yeah I've seen how solvers behave against rangebets and agree that the XR range is quite merged. But in that spot ranges are so wide that even hands like 7x have significant equity.

Let me amend my answer.

Nut advantage is more important for creating polarized raising ranges. You can't polarize if your entire range is showdown value, even if you have a range advantage. You need some hands that dominate.

Since most check-raises are polarizing, I stand by my point that nut advantage is overall more important than range advantage for the purposes of check-raising.

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08-11-2020 , 09:52 AM

Shipnickle

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2020 Posts: 1,540

I agree with tombos21 that nut advantage increases our x/r frequency more than equity advantage alone.

I also agree with MicroDonkYT that solver likes to have a small merged x/r range on almost any board. In the example 7x or 2x hands usually have the property of some backdoor equity. 2x will be turned into a bluff more often than 7x on later streets, given it's x/r on the flop.

It all comes down to frequencies and tombos21 is right that nut advantage matters the most in terms of x/r frequencies. It also matters if OOP has a donking range or not. If OOP has a donking range, the checking range is a bit weaker.

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