I've come to a conclusion this weekend. Between the rake and skill level of players from the micros up has forever changed poker from what it was. Sharks fed on fish. It wasn't poker players were great it was there were enough bad ones to make money off of.

Captain Obvious title goes to me I am sure but I've given up on NLHE ring cash. I don't want to invest the money to be above average proficient in GTO which I think is the last hope for ring games. There are enough fish at the micros but I just can't see grinding out $0.05/$0.10 or $0.01/$0.02. Even at 20bbs/100 the math doesn't make sense economically unless you live somewhere where the cost of living is ridiculously low.

Poker tournaments attract enough dreamers to have bad players in the field. Then it is just a matter of surviving past the bubble and using ICM and exploiting the remaining field to your advantage. A good run of cards helps as well assuming the remaining players are >= to your skill level.

I am talking online. I know there are plenty of fish in the live ring games but seeing so few hands an hour it just doesn't appeal to me personally.

It's all PLO and tournaments for me from today on.

Am I wrong?

It's pretty easy to make $5-10/hr online at NLH micros.
A bit harder to reach $20/hr.
Best regs at micros probably make around $30/hr.

This doesn't sound too bad to me.

If you play low stakes, you can make up to $50/hr.
Best winners at mid stakes make around $100/hr.
At high stakes it is possible to make even $1000+/hr.

Those are just my observations, but am quite certain that it should be about right. If you are good enough/have a good strategy, you can still make a lot of money in poker.

$20 at which limits? $0.05/$0.10. I thought about that. Two double ups across several tables or the equivalent an hour which is easier than it sounds but not a guarantee either. Is there anyone claiming those types of bb/100 in the micros?

I know Blackrain79 does really well but not sure of his exact stats.

I've been making around $25/hr at 20nl over 800k+ hands now.

How many hands is in an "hour" for you?

Also, if you don't mind, what is inclusive in this number? Rakeback/etc?

I play 1000-1400 hands/hr.

Rakeback (around 40%) is included into the winnings.

online NL ring is the toughest area of poker right now imo, but the micros are still very soft especially if your game selecting carefully.

it is definitely possible to climb the stakes, but much more difficult. still, many people have finished amazing BR challenges starting at the micros in the past two years.

if you look at someone like limitless, he started by winning a freeroll on stars, never deposited, and grinded his way up to the highest stakes 25/50+ in a couple years.

PLO and tournaments are great options though. i am a PLO player, and besides the fact that PLO is less cutthroat i also find it is much more entertaining and engaging.

Don't think online MTT's are easy. At least if you have the dream to make it professionally it's very hard to withstand the variance, many people end up being backed and in makeup. Also the sessions can be a real grind of 10+ hours, in cash games you have more freedom with your time.

If you're playing as a hobby or sideincome, either cash games or mtt's are fine. There's also the question of having less action in PLO than in NL overall across several sites. I think you should chose the game you like the most and go from there, it's still possible to make it in both games.