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Old 09-20-2020, 07:25 AM   #51
robert_utk
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Re: Can this new NL Hold'em casino game be beaten?

I did not clearly summarize the conditions that end the game.

The game ends when a player or machine reaches zero, or 200, or the overtime clock reaches 5 minutes, with the deal taking 5 seconds and the human taking between 0 and 10 seconds to act.

However, If The machine reaches zero, the human player only gets paid their score in dollars. The house keeps the leftover as a fee.

Same for if the human gets to zero. The machine operator gets the score in dollars, and the house keeps the leftovers.
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Old 09-21-2020, 03:57 AM   #52
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Re: Can this new NL Hold'em casino game be beaten?

Quote:
Originally Posted by robert_utk View Post
I never said you were stuck with a single range, you assumed that (although the machine is crushable with a single range obviously).
When you say crushable here, what do you mean?

A) Human has higher point-EV than the computer player / machine operator
B) Human has higher $EV than the computer player / machine operator
C) Human has positive $EV for the match after deducting the 100$ buyin

If you mean C), I don't think it's apparent at all that there exists a single range that allows that. I haven't tried myself, but what tombos did looks reasonable to me. If you mean something other than C) you should probably clarify on that, I believe tombos & co are also reading it as C).
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Old 09-21-2020, 08:52 AM   #53
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Re: Can this new NL Hold'em casino game be beaten?

I just meant that tombos21 was already crushing option C, with several single ranges choices.

The machine is designed to be crushed by the human, but the human wants the most return on average in option C, maximum $EV per match.

I have not worked that out, that is Q&A mode and certainly very interesting.

I could be wrong, but there should be a best Ďfirst callí which will boost the human onward towards maximizing $EV per match.
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Old 09-21-2020, 09:02 AM   #54
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Re: Can this new NL Hold'em casino game be beaten?

None of tombos21 ranges have >0 $EV with the latest scoring system, he also stated that he couldn't find any ranges in the simulator with positive match $EV. (The latest link he posted doesn't exactly implement the latest scoring though. http://cpp.sh/3cxlg)

I don't think this game is beatable for the human player (as in: positive ROI) with a static range and static timing.
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Old 09-21-2020, 02:17 PM   #55
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Re: Can this new NL Hold'em casino game be beaten?

I have probably broken the scoring system beyond repair.

Letís give the human his score in points when the game ends regardless of being ahead or behind.

Same for the machine operator.

The house can keep any leftovers.

Game ends when the human or machine reaches zero or 200, or the clock reaches 5 minutes.
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Old 09-21-2020, 06:15 PM   #56
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Re: Can this new NL Hold'em casino game be beaten?

Looks like a range of "77+ ATs+ AJo+ KQs" wins at about 4.9$/round.

Less than 0.01% of rounds end before 60 hands in that case, so the computer score isn't terribly important if the human gets paid when behind. I don't think that's what you had in mind.
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Old Yesterday, 04:58 AM   #57
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Re: Can this new NL Hold'em casino game be beaten?

I don't know what else you have planned for this thread, if this doesn't fit in then no worries.

Suggestion for a more interesting scoring variant:
If a player reaches 200 points he receives a 200$ payout. If the game ends in any other way, the house takes a 25% fee and distributes the remaining 150$ proportional to the point score at the end of the game.

Unless i made some mistake when simulating, this is beatable by the human with a static range / timing and it has a nicely mixed variety of outcomes.

This is still with the following structure:
100$ buy-in
100 point starting scores

Computer shoves ATC.

Human folds: computer +1
Human calls & wins: computer -10, human +5.75
Human calls & loses: computer +5.75, human -10
Human calls & ties: computer +0.5, human +0.5

Game ends when human or computer reach 200 or 0 points, or after 60 hands otherwise.

Last edited by plexiq; Yesterday at 05:13 AM.
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Old Yesterday, 08:35 AM   #58
robert_utk
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Re: Can this new NL Hold'em casino game be beaten?

Quote:
Originally Posted by plexiq View Post
I don't know what else you have planned for this thread, if this doesn't fit in then no worries.

Suggestion for a more interesting scoring variant:
If a player reaches 200 points he receives a 200$ payout. If the game ends in any other way, the house takes a 25% fee and distributes the remaining 150$ proportional to the point score at the end of the game.

Unless i made some mistake when simulating, this is beatable by the human with a static range / timing and it has a nicely mixed variety of outcomes.

This is still with the following structure:
100$ buy-in
100 point starting scores

Computer shoves ATC.

Human folds: computer +1
Human calls & wins: computer -10, human +5.75
Human calls & loses: computer +5.75, human -10
Human calls & ties: computer +0.5, human +0.5

Game ends when human or computer reach 200 or 0 points, or after 60 hands otherwise.

That is much much better. Thank you very much for your help. You are a wizard as always.

Thank you.
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