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BTN 3-Bet vs CO Range Construction BTN 3-Bet vs CO Range Construction

01-14-2019 , 10:00 AM
Using these hands how would you construct a linear 3-betting range vs avg player.

vpip30/pfr22/fold3bet/34.1/4bet12.4/fold5bet0

AA-33,AKo-A8o,KQo-KJo,AKs-A2s,KQs-K9s,QJs-QTs

BTN 3-Bet vs CO Range Construction Quote
01-14-2019 , 01:53 PM
By default against an unknown reg, my BTN 3b range v CO has a degree of polarization, with some hands that are obvious "bluffs" (that would fold to large 4-bets), such as 76s and A3s.
My strat is derived from what Snowie suggests in its pre-flop advisor.

Here's what it suggests for BTN vs CO:


Against someone that doesn't fold to 3-bets very often, I would move to a more linear 3-betting strategy. Instead of flatting AQ, AJs and TT, I would 3-bet those ("for value"), and reduce my bluffs with hands like A4s and 65s.
BTN 3-Bet vs CO Range Construction Quote
01-14-2019 , 11:13 PM
I don't use snowie. If a box is white and has a number in it, like AJo for example, The number is the raise size and the rest are folds? So AJo here would be 61% raise and 39% fold?
BTN 3-Bet vs CO Range Construction Quote
01-15-2019 , 12:08 AM
true

Green = always Raise
Yellow = Call
White fold = Fold
Number = frequenzy of raise

obviously you dont have to stick 100% to snowie´s mixed strategy. I.e. just pick to suits of A9s-A6s and you are fine... as Long as you have the same amount of Combos.
BTN 3-Bet vs CO Range Construction Quote
01-16-2019 , 07:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuko
true



Green = always Raise

Yellow = Call

White fold = Fold

Number = frequenzy of raise



obviously you dont have to stick 100% to snowie´s mixed strategy. I.e. just pick to suits of A9s-A6s and you are fine... as Long as you have the same amount of Combos.
Dumb question but white space with number means % of the time we raise with that hand, correct? So 30 white means 30% 3bet and 70% fold? Or is it 30% call and 70% fold?
BTN 3-Bet vs CO Range Construction Quote
01-16-2019 , 08:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mediacalc
Dumb question but white space with number means % of the time we raise with that hand, correct? So 30 white means 30% 3bet and 70% fold? Or is it 30% call and 70% fold?
Yes. White boxes with numbers mean the hand is either raised or folded, with the number showing the raising frequency.
Orange boxes with a number indicate a mixed strategy of calling and raising, with the number again indicating the raising frequency.

So on the chart I posted, AJo is raised 61% of the time and folded the rest. AQo is raised 21% of the time, and called the rest of the time.
BTN 3-Bet vs CO Range Construction Quote
01-16-2019 , 08:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtyMcFly
Yes. White boxes with numbers mean the hand is either raised or folded, with the number showing the raising frequency.

Orange boxes with a number indicate a mixed strategy of calling and raising, with the number again indicating the raising frequency.



So on the chart I posted, AJo is raised 61% of the time and folded the rest. AQo is raised 21% of the time, and called the rest of the time.
Ok great, that's what I thought it was. It's interesting though that no hands exist that have a frequency of all of raise/call/fold.
BTN 3-Bet vs CO Range Construction Quote
01-16-2019 , 01:17 PM
Are you talking about 6 max ITT?
BTN 3-Bet vs CO Range Construction Quote
01-16-2019 , 01:34 PM
Ok I have the same snowie advice in my 6 max app. Sorry to waste people’s time. The vpip etc suggested 6 max!

But anyway, the 3 betting range looks quite narrow compared with some advice I’ve read for full ring BTN v CO (especially for the bluffs) and I’m struggling to figure out if that can be right
BTN 3-Bet vs CO Range Construction Quote
01-16-2019 , 03:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanvliet
But anyway, the 3 betting range looks quite narrow compared with some advice I’ve read for full ring BTN v CO (especially for the bluffs) and I’m struggling to figure out if that can be right
Have you got a chart (or a list) of which hands you've seen recommended for 3-betting in BTNvCO?
Using a simplified version of Snowie's suggestions but with pure strats (e.g. 3-betting all the hands that it 3-bets more than 50% of the time - JJ+, A8s+, A5s-A2s, KJs+, 76s, 65s, 54s, AKo, AJo, KQo) leads to a 3-bet percentage in this spot of 9%. I think that's pretty solid for BTN v CO in 6-max cash 100bb deep. Exploitatively, a higher (or lower) frequency, or a different set of hands could make sense too.
BTN 3-Bet vs CO Range Construction Quote
01-20-2019 , 12:22 AM
I like Pokersnowie's BTN range vs CO open.

But CO's defense vs. BTN 3bet is to flat with KJs, which is our only combo on Kx. This means we're always at the top of our range on Kxx and are forced to call down usually on reasonable runouts, right? Seems like we have a terrible deficit on Kxx, and are forced to call down with 99 or float with AQ/AJ OOP a lot as well?
BTN 3-Bet vs CO Range Construction Quote
01-20-2019 , 02:47 PM
FWIW, I always thought Snowie's lack of Kx in its calling ranges in single-raised pots was slightly problematic (e.g. like in the BTN v CO chart I posted, KTs is the only king it calls with), but I think what it loses on Kxx boards it makes up on others. There's typically a lot of fold equity for the PFR on any Kxx flop, partly because the raiser always has every combo of AK, while the caller often doesn't. It's just one of those range imbalance things. Boards containing tens and nines tend to be better for a caller, while Axx and Kxx are better for the raiser, and that's another reason why MDF isn't very useful on the flop.
BTN 3-Bet vs CO Range Construction Quote
01-21-2019 , 08:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanvliet
I can't prove that Chad's ranges are necessarily bad, but for some of the spots he listed, I would describe his 3-betting strat as "weird". Maybe his strats make more sense in a tourney situation, but those ranges are far from standard for 6-max cash 100bb deep.
BTN 3-Bet vs CO Range Construction Quote
01-21-2019 , 09:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtyMcFly
By default against an unknown reg, my BTN 3b range v CO has a degree of polarization, with some hands that are obvious "bluffs" (that would fold to large 4-bets), such as 76s and A3s.
My strat is derived from what Snowie suggests in its pre-flop advisor.

Here's what it suggests for BTN vs CO:


Against someone that doesn't fold to 3-bets very often, I would move to a more linear 3-betting strategy. Instead of flatting AQ, AJs and TT, I would 3-bet those ("for value"), and reduce my bluffs with hands like A4s and 65s.
I like this except to note that vs players that call too much, I'll call A6s-A8s 100% of the time instead of A5s-A2s, which I continue to 3 bet 100%. Yes this implies that I 3 bet A9s+ without a 4 bet read on the blinds, which could sway me with A9s and ATs.

Any wider as suggested upthread and you're either missing calling value and or overvaluing fold equity(people pick up good hands that they have the intention of playing, oh look they raised, good chance they have one of these hands).

However, vs tight blinds and an opener that raises a standard cutoff range, I tend to 3 bet much more, particularly with the stronger straight flush draws, and Any Axs+.
BTN 3-Bet vs CO Range Construction Quote
01-22-2019 , 05:58 PM
Arty, I assume Chad was talking about full ring (he doesn’t specify 6 max) but I guess this doesn’t really matter when we’re talking about BTN play vs a CO open raise...
BTN 3-Bet vs CO Range Construction Quote

      
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