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Old 08-12-2017, 02:00 AM   #1
ZaXXoR
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ADVICE PLEASE~Strange Blind Structure/prizepool Bar/homegame

OK, So I play at this local bar when I can, they run 3 games a week at $20 buyin and saturday is $20+$5 buyin.

If there is stacks left before we fill up to 45 players they will do rebuys usually for the first level or first 3 levels. sometimes the first hand.

Usually once a month they will do $50 or $100 buyin, sometimes $20+$20 bounty.

I played there a few years ago and was probably slightly in profit or slightly out of profit but have learned the player pool to the point where i know everyone who players there on a regular basis.

Starting Stacks are $10,000 and blinds are 15 minutes. ( i think it changes to 20 at final table or 500/1000)

Blinds go 50/100
100/200
200/400
300/600
400/800
800/1000
1000/2000
1500/3000
2000/4000
3000/6000
4000/8000
5000/10000
then i think 10000/20000

They pay out usually top 5 or 6 players and usually have 5 tables of 7-9 players

Most of the playerpool is older fish who limp and play passive with a few decent regs and a few nits and maniacs but I don't think any of the regs are playing the main event or anything, i've seen them make some very questionable plays and have made observations that led me to believe they don't study theory beyond a doyle brunson book.

I've been playing generally more loose in the past and have showed some hands, and one card shows and attained the "LAG" image from 90%+ of the players over the course of the few years.

I have been tracking my wins and losses since coming back and I'm down about $500, and have made a few questionable plays but I think the main thing is I need to make a few adjustments to accommodate for the blind structure and prizepool and have had a bit of a bad run of cards.

What is your general experience in these types of games and what approach would you take? How can i CRUSH this game? (any and all opinions are appreciated)

Last edited by ZaXXoR; 08-12-2017 at 02:06 AM.
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Old 08-15-2017, 01:13 AM   #2
YouAreAwesome
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Re: ADVICE PLEASE~Strange Blind Structure/prizepool Bar/homegame

I "crush" my local games for $13/hr with buyins ranging from $30 to $75 and entrants between ~9-40 players. To give you my background, I've played about 5 million hands of zoom poker and heaps of sitngo's before zoom took over. I studied sitngos for about 2 years before swapping to cash.

For live-tells stuff I watched all of "reading poker tells" youtube vids, read the posts here now and then, and read Mike Caros book of tells. I use a bit of white magic too. Just look at someone and you can tell if they're relaxed/confident or stressed/scared (I don't put too much weight on tells, but if it's close between decisions it can help).

For overall playing advice my overall strategy is to play super-tight early, develop an image of being someone who is scared to play hands, and then shove wide late in the tournament now that you've gained respect. I've had players show me AK when they folded to my shove for like 8bbs.

Every time I enter a pot I raise. Zero limping first in. Sometimes I might limp behind early in the night with PP's or suited connectors if I'm in late position and I know the blinds don't raise without premiums. Early on with 150bb+ I raise to 4bbs. When I have 100bbs I raise to 3bbs. At about 30bbs I raise 2.5x and with 20bbs I raise to 2x. It's push or fold with about 12bbs and less. If someone else raises I almost never call behind. I always 3bet or fold unless the person is also a nit like me. If I'm committing more than 1/3 of my stack pre flop by 3betting I just shove all in. I do this with all hands including KK+, I don't try and get tricky and do a min-reraise or something weird.

Player types are important. Whenever you are not in a hand (which is a lot) I watch the players for betting styles/sizing, how often they call compared to how often they raise etc. I then use that information for how to play against them post flop. Bet bet bet vs calling stations. x/c x/c x/shove vs maniacs etc.

Generally I only cbet heads up on J+ hi flops. They always put me on strong hands because I play so tight and respect is key. If it's T hi or below I check. Then if a card higher than T appears I bet the turn, if not, I check back. It's not always this simple but that's the base-line strategy. If I have a strong hand, I do not slow play almost ever, I aim to get the money in with big bets.

The weird thing is how much they fold to all ins yet call big bets.

Most important is to not go down in chips early because we need fold equity. Any marginal spots, just fold. No need to chase. We need an average, or just below average stack when we hit the 20bb mark and below. We need to use our fold equity. I shove 100% of the time Sb v Bb with 10bb and below (depending on the player, but against almost all players I will do this). I fold my SB a lot and the players have a go at me for being overly tight. They always want family pots. I only ever push or fold with below 12bbs.

As for actual starting hands I can't put all that in here because it changes with stack size, position, ICM, and player types. There's probably heaps more to say but hopefully this helps. Everyone plays different but i would say never show your hands, not even one card. Try and remove the LAG image, even the TAG image, and get a NIT image. Stay in the background watching the other players and only come in to a pot when you are strong.

Hope this helps. Online can be pretty tough. Live games are easy. Try and run good too Oh and also, try playing 45 man sit n gos online and find a strategy that wins there. You will find it also wins playing live.
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Old 08-15-2017, 04:42 AM   #3
Ellusify
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Re: ADVICE PLEASE~Strange Blind Structure/prizepool Bar/homegame

I gotta say, yes. Just trying this, has increased my fold equity with opponents. It seems they have that post flop "oh, it must be aces" mentality lol.
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Old 09-03-2017, 07:31 AM   #4
ZaXXoR
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Re: ADVICE PLEASE~Strange Blind Structure/prizepool Bar/homegame

Quote:
Originally Posted by YouAreAwesome View Post
I "crush" my local games for $13/hr with buyins ranging from $30 to $75 and entrants between ~9-40 players. To give you my background, I've played about 5 million hands of zoom poker and heaps of sitngo's before zoom took over. I studied sitngos for about 2 years before swapping to cash.

For live-tells stuff I watched all of "reading poker tells" youtube vids, read the posts here now and then, and read Mike Caros book of tells. I use a bit of white magic too. Just look at someone and you can tell if they're relaxed/confident or stressed/scared (I don't put too much weight on tells, but if it's close between decisions it can help).

For overall playing advice my overall strategy is to play super-tight early, develop an image of being someone who is scared to play hands, and then shove wide late in the tournament now that you've gained respect. I've had players show me AK when they folded to my shove for like 8bbs.

Every time I enter a pot I raise. Zero limping first in. Sometimes I might limp behind early in the night with PP's or suited connectors if I'm in late position and I know the blinds don't raise without premiums. Early on with 150bb+ I raise to 4bbs. When I have 100bbs I raise to 3bbs. At about 30bbs I raise 2.5x and with 20bbs I raise to 2x. It's push or fold with about 12bbs and less. If someone else raises I almost never call behind. I always 3bet or fold unless the person is also a nit like me. If I'm committing more than 1/3 of my stack pre flop by 3betting I just shove all in. I do this with all hands including KK+, I don't try and get tricky and do a min-reraise or something weird.

Player types are important. Whenever you are not in a hand (which is a lot) I watch the players for betting styles/sizing, how often they call compared to how often they raise etc. I then use that information for how to play against them post flop. Bet bet bet vs calling stations. x/c x/c x/shove vs maniacs etc.

Generally I only cbet heads up on J+ hi flops. They always put me on strong hands because I play so tight and respect is key. If it's T hi or below I check. Then if a card higher than T appears I bet the turn, if not, I check back. It's not always this simple but that's the base-line strategy. If I have a strong hand, I do not slow play almost ever, I aim to get the money in with big bets.

The weird thing is how much they fold to all ins yet call big bets.

Most important is to not go down in chips early because we need fold equity. Any marginal spots, just fold. No need to chase. We need an average, or just below average stack when we hit the 20bb mark and below. We need to use our fold equity. I shove 100% of the time Sb v Bb with 10bb and below (depending on the player, but against almost all players I will do this). I fold my SB a lot and the players have a go at me for being overly tight. They always want family pots. I only ever push or fold with below 12bbs.

As for actual starting hands I can't put all that in here because it changes with stack size, position, ICM, and player types. There's probably heaps more to say but hopefully this helps. Everyone plays different but i would say never show your hands, not even one card. Try and remove the LAG image, even the TAG image, and get a NIT image. Stay in the background watching the other players and only come in to a pot when you are strong.

Hope this helps. Online can be pretty tough. Live games are easy. Try and run good too Oh and also, try playing 45 man sit n gos online and find a strategy that wins there. You will find it also wins playing live.
Thanks for the input, Ya I've played many 45 mans, it's just really weird that they have a 1k/2k blind jump from 500/1000 and the blinds change in length at 1k/2k to like 2 minutes shorter or something.

I understand that you profit off of a tight image, but I profit off a loose image, I was more-so looking for adjustments to make around the 400/800 500/1k blind levels to prepare for the 1k/2k jump. maybe play as if my stack is half the size? 3/4 the size?

I could not pull this off. I have been playing at this bar for like 2-3 years and am known as the "young gun" with a loose image, sometimes I get calls I shouldn't because "you showed bluff all night" even though I showed one specific bluff for image building/needling only.
You'd be surprised how often people will fold a flop bet knowing I will barrel the turn most likely. They let me control the action and that allows me to dictate the pot sizes which is amazing for minimizing losses and maximizing wins. I hear them say "you didn't have ****" when i have hands, and "you probably have it this time" when I bet bluffs, so I don't know if the tight image building is really that profitable or useful considering people will just play their game regardless, especially at small bar games live.

Many times i've had guys just muck their hand before i reach for chips then grumble something and whine about how they'll let me steal the pot this time when I have a boat and am betting 3rd street for value xD
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Old 09-03-2017, 07:59 PM   #5
YouAreAwesome
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Re: ADVICE PLEASE~Strange Blind Structure/prizepool Bar/homegame

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZaXXoR View Post
Thanks for the input, Ya I've played many 45 mans, it's just really weird that they have a 1k/2k blind jump from 500/1000 and the blinds change in length at 1k/2k to like 2 minutes shorter or something.

I understand that you profit off of a tight image, but I profit off a loose image, I was more-so looking for adjustments to make around the 400/800 500/1k blind levels to prepare for the 1k/2k jump. maybe play as if my stack is half the size? 3/4 the size?

I could not pull this off. I have been playing at this bar for like 2-3 years and am known as the "young gun" with a loose image, sometimes I get calls I shouldn't because "you showed bluff all night" even though I showed one specific bluff for image building/needling only.
You'd be surprised how often people will fold a flop bet knowing I will barrel the turn most likely. They let me control the action and that allows me to dictate the pot sizes which is amazing for minimizing losses and maximizing wins. I hear them say "you didn't have ****" when i have hands, and "you probably have it this time" when I bet bluffs, so I don't know if the tight image building is really that profitable or useful considering people will just play their game regardless, especially at small bar games live.

Many times i've had guys just muck their hand before i reach for chips then grumble something and whine about how they'll let me steal the pot this time when I have a boat and am betting 3rd street for value xD
I honestly don't take into account blind level jumps, how long each level is for etc. I just play according to effective stack size in BB's at the present moment. If you have 100bbs and the next level you'll only have 10bb (just as a hypothetical example), then you still don't want to shove 100bb because you only increase your stack by 1.5% if everyone folds. If you shove with 10bbs you increase your stack by 15%. Massive difference. This is why the tight approach works in my opinion. If you don't play a hand while the blinds are small, then when you shove when the blinds are big you increase your fold equity. Fold equity is essential when all you want to do is steal the blinds with a bad hand. If you're happy with your LAG style then go for it and keep track of your winnings. I play a very similar game to what you describe regularly and I literally make back more than I put in. My ROI is well over 100%. But you've gotta have fun too, it's not like we're playing high stakes. So just do what you enjoy.
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Old 09-05-2017, 08:31 AM   #6
Tutejszy
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Re: ADVICE PLEASE~Strange Blind Structure/prizepool Bar/homegame

to simplify all of the above, play tight in the first few levels, since there is no folding equity anyway, and then just print money shoving wide over limps later. Dont go too crazy first in as there are no antes.

With that structure, you are likely to not play a single hand postflop in most tournaments, which is correct approach.
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