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Size down on river because of lack of bluffs? Size down on river because of lack of bluffs?
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04-18-2024 , 06:42 PM
#1
Drefaz
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3bet pot CO vs UTG.

CO bets 1/3 range on the flop, check some monsters like KK on the turn.

Villain checks river on the Ace and Hero doesn't go allin with his hand despite having a massive nut advantage and an almost nut hand. Even more, he never goes allin, most of his range just bets 2/3.

Does this happen because hero lacks air to bet bigger?

Thanks!
Size down on river because of lack of bluffs? Quote
04-19-2024 , 09:01 PM
#2
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aner0
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Generally no, this is not a reason to size down in theory (maybe in practice) theoretically there's almost always more hands you can find to bluff

Think about it, if betting big was bad because your opponent always folds "cause no bluffs" then you could exploit that by bluffing big always with whatever bluffs you do have, making that not an equilbrium
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04-19-2024 , 10:55 PM
#3
Drefaz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aner0
Generally no, this is not a reason to size down in theory (maybe in practice) theoretically there's almost always more hands you can find to bluff

Think about it, if betting big was bad because your opponent always folds "cause no bluffs" then you could exploit that by bluffing big always with whatever bluffs you do have, making that not an equilbrium
What do you think is happening here?
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04-19-2024 , 11:05 PM
#4
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Overall range has way more hands that are worth around 2/3 pot than ones that are worth all in, and strong hands need to be spread out into every other line where you have weaker value before considering developing a "direct" value line
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04-19-2024 , 11:18 PM
#5
mycorrhizae
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When you're in position on the river, you don't have to shove to protect equity with your medium pairs, you can just check and get your money. You're not getting called by worse so shoving doesn't make sense.

UTG is calling with top pair and 2nd pair to the medium sizing, and CO can still call a decent amount to a rejam. You look at COs river check range, it's mostly 2nd and 3rd pair, which have a lot of equity but don't get called by worse.
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04-19-2024 , 11:18 PM
#6
Drefaz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aner0
Overall range has way more hands that are worth around 2/3 pot than ones that are worth all in, and strong hands need to be spread out into every other line where you have weaker value before considering developing a "direct" value line
That makes a lot of sense, thanks!
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04-19-2024 , 11:25 PM
#7
mycorrhizae
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You have the nuts advantage but also want to get value with your top pair


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04-21-2024 , 04:46 AM
#8
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Another time you commonly size down is on boards where there are too many 4 of a kind possibilities for both opponents. You have to bet smaller to target those weaker hands. If you bet big they can correctly fold everything. Extreme example:

BU opens 2.5BBs
BB calls

Flop(5.5BBs) A A A
BB checks
BU bets 1.8BBs
BB calls

Turn(9.1BBs) A A A 7
BB checks
BU bets 6BBs
BB calls

River(21.1BBs) A A A 7 2
BB checks
BU bets 289.7BBs
BB folds

In this scenario BB is never calling without an ace and BU can't properly bluff with any combinations without an ace for that sizing, since he unblocks too many nut hands that will call him.
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