This is a serious question, and I can't decide the answer. Hopefully people will give it some thought rather than just saying 'of course it is they're all donks'.

Recently the site I play on has really loosened up, it's always been loose but it's starting to get ridiculous now. An average 6m table will have two guys playing 50/30, somebody running something like 75/3 then a couple others who could be running say 30/11 or 42/18. Sometimes there will be a tighter person or 2 but rarely more.

So, how do you adjust your TAG style to this table? It looks sooooo juicy, and it must be profitable right? For me it's just been one huge variance fest, the grinding aspect is gone, iso raising won't work, cbets wont work etc.

Every 6 hands you are losing 0.75bb, do you think this can be overcome just from playing premium hands? If anybody's got experience of similar games or advice on adjustments then I'd love to hear.

I think the best adjustment I've come up with so far is upping my initial preflop raise, at 100nl most people use $4 but I've started firing out $6.

Playing TAG in a loose, passive table is the most profitable way to make money in poker.

loose, passive. But this table is loose aggressive.

Sounds horrible. The full LAG table is giving you no FE. I would probably tighten up even more than you already are, or preferably avoid these tables. Has your higher preflop raising given you more FE when you cbet?

I think how I personally would play it is be more straightforward and showdown bound

basically what you have described sounds like the typical live poker game. tighten up and take them to value town.

Excellent game to be in. I wish every table was like that.

what he said

It's not really changed anything post flop, obv I get paid more when I hit though, but it seems to get the pot HU or 3 handed which makes it a bit easier to play.

Whoever compared it to a live game is probably quite right, but aren't most live games 8-10 handed? Here I still need to get hold of blinds to stay afloat.

Next time a table has those conditions I'm gonna try opening to 10bb to really punish the callers and cut down their implied odds. If somebody raises infront I think I may start just shove raising with big pairs because I can see them calling with 55-88 putting me on AK. It does seem like one big variance fest at the moment!

I think you're taking the wrong approach here. If you have AK, you want callers with KQ, KJ, K3s, etc. Occasionally, they'll hit their flush, or 2nd pair, but the vast majority of the time, they'll be calling bets from way behind.

Overraising preflop is trading in slight variance on large-pot, profitable situations for more assured tiny pots. I don't see the point. Feel free to PM me what site you are on. If you don't like the action, I certainly would.

This is it. The game is three times bigger than you normally play. The players have taken you out of your comfort zone. You don't want to learn to adjust. You need to leave the table. Your bankroll can't stand the variance.

They are all making huge pre flop mistakes, so punish them. When you reckon you have the equity edge pre flop put in a decent raise. While you will be playing less hands overall, in a given situation you should play more loose aggressive. What I mean is that if manic A raises and manic B calls you might three bet with AJo, where against tight players you might well muck AJo. The different being that in a tight game A and B might have both mucked, so you would still be raising with AJo.

Accept that you are effectively playing $5/$10 not $0.5/$1, and desensitise yourself to it.

Also post flop these sort will often be pushing any sort of weakness. You have to be able to stick around and fight back with quite weak holdings. Use the stats to estimate their ranges, estimate your equity against their range and don’t be pushed off if you have the odds to stick around. Distinguish between the opponents you value bet to death, those you rope the dope to death and those you stay away from.

DON’T just call their pre flop raises and play weak fit and fold poker post flop. That’s likely to turn their style into a winning one.

Good post Piers.

When you say it's effectively $5/$10 do you mean that the stacks are effectively shorter because of all the raising, or do you mean it's playing higher because of the added variance and the fact you'll be getting it in lighter? I think I'm gonna try and avoid these games as much as possible for now because they tilt the hell out of me, maybe after a few days of playing in a nitfest I'll come to my senses!

I don't tighten up in these types of games. I actually widen my raising/3 betting/calling range, because basically, you're going to be way ahead of them most of the time, and your implied odds are ridiculous. I don't believe tightening up is the right approach. Just accept the variance and get your money in in good spots.

What I mean is that the size on of the pot will be bigger given the same hand ranges.

At $1/$2 you raise to $6 and get a couple of callers the pots~$18. If the game is much looser you might reraise to $18 and get a couple of callers pot $54, with everyone having similar hand ranges. So the game has effectively tripled in size.

The stacks will be effectively shorter and that will have an impact, however the main problem this posses for people is that they are now playing out of their comfort level. Solution, play lower, shorter or find some way to desensitise yourself.

Site Name Please??

Playing at a table like this is not profitable. Leave it immediately.

In fact, as a public service, you should PM me the name of this site, so I can warn people away from playing under such terrible game conditions.

lol, pretty much expected 100 of these replies.

Sorry but I have to say of course it's profitable they are all donks. Ill also explain myself though. You don't have to tighten up so much that you are only playing premium hands. You have to stack off lighter post-flop at a table like this, so variance is definitely higher and you should be well-rolled for the stakes you play. If they play back too light preflop, 3-bet and 4-bet a wider range for value, and take out most (if not all) of your 3-bet bluffing. If they 3-bet you constantly, 4-bet bluff. If they will 5-bet shove over a large % of 4bets with air, then shove when you 4bet. If they raise a ton of c-bets, then don't bet air on the flop, and call their raises lighter than you normally would vs sane players when you do bet. If they are really bluffy, 3-bet bluff the flop now and then. You have to adjust to the table you're at, and learning to do so will help you a ton in the long run.

These are all really obvious adjustments and I've thought about them already. Generally stacks aren't going in preflop, there isn't a ton of 3 betting but there IS a lot of calling. This makes all the 4 bet bluff, 4 bet shove etc adjustments unnecessary.

Post flop, cbets will get raised (often min raised, grrr) and almost always at least called. Generally, if an A or K flops you'll be able to take the pot down if they dont have anything. If the flop doesn't have A or K then you are going to get looked up a ton. Not c-betting air is a nice idea but when the flop comes down we're going to have air most of the time, it's finding a way to win these pots. Do you fire again on the turn unimproved, they could have bottom pair or they could be holding a gutshot and 2 live cards. Checking it down will almost always induce a river bet, so should these be value called with Ax. I think this is the biggest part of the game I'm having trouble with.

Maybe a better line vs these guys is to check back any flop then raise any turn when I've got position. If I'm oop then cr the flop regularly may be the key.

Since starting this thread I've moved down again, nl50 now, and I've got about 100bi for it so shouldn't be playing scared in the slightest.

It depends on the type of games, but I have played against some fishy 50% vpip players and 3 barreling works great against them. I say works great, but you have to know when to do it. K834J board is probably not the time. J83KA and pewpewpewpew.

I would imagine you would have some massive variance and it will take a while till you start to show a profit but YOU WILL show a profit playing a solid TAG against them. I personally love to play on tables where almost everyone there has a Vpip of 50 or greater. "value town", love it.

Great Quote and nails the point, these tables are juicy, but you have to have the ballz to play with these guys both pf (incorporate 3-betting) and post (love to float these tables and 3-bet or check raise the turns).

Focus on position too, you do not want to be out of position, i.e. defending your blinds.

Read hands, stack off lighter, take more passive lines sometimes, play tighter and be a bitch about position, and punish with your good hands pre-flop. You also have to realize that ******ed LAGs don't know when to slow down and they often get on such a rush they have no regard for what you could possibly have at any time, so it's really one of the easiest ways to make a lot of money. You're investing small pots to win really big pots.