Merging PLO and NLHE into 1 game - Poker Theory

The game starts with 4 hole cards and switches from PLO to NLHE right AFTER the turn card is dealt and BEFORE the 3rd betting round starts.

Betting rounds:
PRE-F => PLO
FLOP => PLO
TURN => NLHE (discard 2 hole cards before betting)
RIVER => NLHE

I found this a moment ago and I think it well deserves to be discussed. Will this game work fine ? Any flaws spotted ?

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01-07-2022 , 01:55 PM

pjj

adept

Join Date: Jul 2020 Posts: 1,020

This actually sounds decent. Not a huge difference from PLO, but enough to make it fun.

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01-07-2022 , 02:29 PM

ITryDeuces

grinder

Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 578

Quote:

Originally Posted by pjj

This actually sounds decent. Not a huge difference from PLO, but enough to make it fun.

Thanks! I'll be analyzing this hybrid more deeply and within next couple of days I should know if it's something more.

The game seems to create some interesting situations, but what interests me the most is how the mixed PL/NL betting system affects hole cards transparency. What I mean is - if it's at the proper level to make the game strategic.

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01-07-2022 , 02:43 PM

Didace

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 19,879

How is this any different than variations of Pineapple?

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01-07-2022 , 02:53 PM

LordPallidan12

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 2,140

they play a lot of no limit Plo in prison

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01-07-2022 , 03:57 PM

ITryDeuces

grinder

Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 578

Quote:

Originally Posted by Didace

How is this any different than variations of Pineapple?

It mixes pot limit and no limit. The Pineapple games use only one betting system as far as those variants I heard of.

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01-07-2022 , 04:20 PM

Didace

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 19,879

Plenty of variants do this, e.g., limit for pre- and flop, no-limit for turn and river.

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01-07-2022 , 05:14 PM

ITryDeuces

grinder

Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 578

Quote:

Originally Posted by Didace

Plenty of variants do this, e.g., limit for pre- and flop, no-limit for turn and river.

Ok, but there's a really small chance someone invented exactly the same variant before. This one is pure hybrid of PLO and NLHE that shifts from one game to another at a certain point. I still don't know for sure, but it could be more fun and more strategic than Pineapple variants. Small rule differences can make a change here.

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01-07-2022 , 06:07 PM

jvds

adept

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 1,176

Can’t help but think there is an element missing from this game, maybe something like time. Not sure if you’ve considered something like that.

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01-07-2022 , 09:54 PM

#10

aner0

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 3,671

why play this when i could play Zeiter

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01-08-2022 , 06:12 AM

#11

ITryDeuces

grinder

Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 578

Quote:

Originally Posted by aner0

why play this when i could play Zeiter

Zeiter is history

I suddenly woke up from that "time dream", but in a successful way as you can notice. Although this new game is still untitled, don't know why.

Want to comment on the rules of the new one ?

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01-08-2022 , 11:39 AM

#12

ITryDeuces

grinder

Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 578

The coolest thing about this game is that it very often "finds" XX vs XX hole cards that would normally almost never meet in normal NLHE on turn or river.

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01-08-2022 , 03:03 PM

#13

Haizemberg93

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 7,254

What if stacks go in before river?

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01-08-2022 , 03:18 PM

#14

ITryDeuces

grinder

Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 578

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haizemberg93

What if stacks go in before river?

If players go all in pre-flop / flop they don't show their cards until the turn shows up and after discarding 2 cards they can show (if no more active players in the hand).

On the turn it's the same as normal game because they have only 2 cards.

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01-09-2022 , 08:48 AM

#15

ITryDeuces

grinder

Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 578

Seems like the game will be super cool. The main question is:

- When facing a difficult decision on the river, is it possible to look back into previous actions of your opponent (pre, flop, turn) and read the necessary information from it ?

Answering this question should tell if this game is something more than just a new variant. If someone is able to answer this, please do, because I don't have the necessary knowledge for this question. It's the key question.

If we get 10,000 views on this thread we should be able to make Phil Ivey or durrrr read it and then the game might be popular. It's the only way

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01-09-2022 , 11:53 AM

#16

Longines

centurion

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 108

The game you're describnig is Irish, pretty standard choice in DC cash games in the UK. Button gets to choose number of starting hole cards and how many/when they get discarded.

Discarding on both the flop and turn creates more strategy spots IME. It's a fun choice, makes you think.

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01-09-2022 , 12:38 PM

#17

ITryDeuces

grinder

Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 578

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longines

The game you're describing is Irish

I remember Irish poker being on FTP back in the days. The whole game was no limit with discarding 2 (of 4) cards on the flop. If my game is supposed to have the same name it should have identical rules. I still see differences, but I'll read more about those Irish variants.

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01-10-2022 , 12:02 PM

#18

ITryDeuces

grinder

Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 578

Quote:

Originally Posted by ITryDeuces

- When facing a difficult decision on the river, is it possible to look back into previous actions of your opponent (pre, flop, turn) and read the necessary information from it ?

Is anyone able to answer this question ? It's the key thing and the answer should show what this game really is.

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01-10-2022 , 12:07 PM

#19

Didace

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 19,879

You do understand, don't you, that for anyone playing this game it would not be a surprise that hole cards are discarded and betting limits change on the turn?

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01-10-2022 , 12:16 PM

#20

ITryDeuces

grinder

Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 578

Quote:

Originally Posted by Didace

You do understand, don't you, that for anyone playing this game it would not be a surprise that hole cards are discarded and betting limits change on the turn?

Sorry, I think I didn't get your point. Do you mean someone already played exactly the same variant before ? I really doubt it.

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01-10-2022 , 12:40 PM

#21

Longines

centurion

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 108

Quote:

Originally Posted by ITryDeuces

Do you mean someone already played exactly the same variant before ? I really doubt it.

Then you're wrong. I have played many hands live of exactly the variant you're describing. Six cards pre, two discarded on the flop and two on the turn is chosen more frequently, but four zero two is also called.

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01-10-2022 , 01:46 PM

#22

jvds

adept

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 1,176

What if before the turn discard all of the players had to hold their breath and the one who could hold it the longest gets to keep an extra card (but plays only 2 of 3 at showdown)? Obviously each player would have to hold the nose of the player next to them to ensure they couldn’t breathe through their nose. The dealer would probably have to hold the nose of seat 1 or 10 though so it might be an obstacle finding dealers for the game.

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01-10-2022 , 02:32 PM

#23

ITryDeuces

grinder

Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 578

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longines

I have played many hands live of exactly the variant you're describing.

With pot limit switching to no limit after discarding ?

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01-10-2022 , 02:35 PM

#24

Didace

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 19,879

Quote:

Originally Posted by ITryDeuces

With pot limit switching to no limit after discarding ?

Why do you think that makes a big difference?

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01-10-2022 , 02:42 PM

#25

ITryDeuces

grinder

Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 578

Quote:

Originally Posted by Didace

Why do you think that makes a big difference?

It makes a huge difference, just like PLO vs NLO does.

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