Quote:
Originally Posted by David Sklansky
What/? Are you realizing that the version you are discussing is the one where he doesn't know you saw two cards? His adjustments as far as what we do, will be what 52 card GTO tells him. If he strays from that because of odd ways we played previous hands it would no longer apply to the conditions of the OP.
Yeah, I realize we are speaking of that version. I didn’t stray from the conditions of the OP. I wasn’t speaking of the previous hands we played but instead about how the opponent will react to the current strategy that we choose to employ. You said that there was a perfect exploit possible, but as we don’t know exactly how the opponent will react to our play, it is impossible to judge the perfect exploit.
This is largely irrelevant to the OP, but it is important, and it’s not just you that misunderstands it. People often say “If two rational players exploited and counter exploited they are destined to reach GTO” but that is not true. This statement also neglects to appreciate that our opponents usually change their strategy based on what we do right now, which enables us to take a measure of control over the way the opponent will act in the future. This ability to control the opponents future reactions enables us to lure our opponent from GTO to make them MORE exploitable over time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Sklansky
In any case I don't want to stray from the main aspects of my post. How to come up with the button's GTO strategy and what type of games besides heads up holdem would be amenable to showing some out of play cards to some but not all of the players.
To come up with the GTO strategy for the button during the second scenario, do we even need to consider the likelihood of the different cards being seen? We’ll never see the extra cards anyway, so do they really matter to our strategy? Can’t we just feed the bb’s strategy in the first scenario into a normal solver and let it tell us the counter strategy?
I obviously understand the winrate the solver will give us will be wrong, but will that be the only mistake the solver makes?
… I like your idea of negating the advantage gained by position with an extra element, like being able to see some hidden cards. I don’t see why it wouldn’t work in the most versions of Poker. However, I think it’s more important nowadays to create versions of the game that negate a players ability to use GTO, which means the game would need elements that constantly change. I came up with a version which requires a second deck of cards, 1 card from this deck is dealt face up at the start of each hand, and on the card is written a handicap for the table: “Only pot size bets allowed”. I think these handicaps are a very effective way of obliterating the hold GTO has over the tables whilst not actually introducing any new elements to further complicate the game. These handicaps actually make Poker simpler, but the interchangeable nature of them will make the GTO strategy impossibly complicated.
Last edited by Yadulla; 11-24-2022 at 08:21 PM.