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12-14-2021 , 08:20 PM
#1
anotherday's Avatar
anotherday
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centurion
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I ran a sim in gto+ and I'm confused about this spot.



Why do GTO bet 87s, Q8s but check 98s, T8s, J8s? Is it because we block 67 with 87s? Don't we wanna unblock 67 for him to call? A7, A6 doesn't bet because it does have showdown value. Why J9s is a bet but J8s is a check? Is J8 a check because it isn't good enough for three streets of value? But if it's that's the case, why are we betting 87s on the turn? Thanks in advance for the answers because I'm confused.
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12-14-2021 , 08:28 PM
#2
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We can't even see the ranges or how you got tho this spot, how are we supposed to know
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12-14-2021 , 10:28 PM
#3
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Is this BTN open SB call?

Generally we prefer betting undercard kickers because they are more vulnerable. Eg villain is probably folding T9 no backdoor vs your bet, which is great when you have a hand like 87, not so much when you have 98.
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12-15-2021 , 05:07 AM
#4
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centurion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aner0
We can't even see the ranges or how you got tho this spot, how are we supposed to know
btn range:



bb range:


I know that's not a good bb range but people in micros have a range like this, even sometimes wider.]

Villain checks, Hero bets 1/3 and villain calls and we're on the turn.
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12-15-2021 , 05:13 AM
#5
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centurion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keuwai
Is this BTN open SB call?

Generally we prefer betting undercard kickers because they are more vulnerable. Eg villain is probably folding T9 no backdoor vs your bet, which is great when you have a hand like 87, not so much when you have 98.
Yes, it is. So we're checking hands like 98, T8, J8 so he may try to bluff us with a 6x, 4x type of a hand on the river?

Another weird thing is that it bets Q4s but mixes checking and betting with K4s.
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12-15-2021 , 06:12 AM
#6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anotherday
Yes, it is. So we're checking hands like 98, T8, J8 so he may try to bluff us with a 6x, 4x type of a hand on the river?

Another weird thing is that it bets Q4s but mixes checking and betting with K4s.
Sorry, I missed that we were on the turn. Yes what you say makes sense, J8 and T8 like to check, unblocking all the gutshots that might bluff us on the river.

Q4 is a better bet than K4 because we unblock BB's K high floats that are folding to our turn bet.

But tbh these blocker effects are of secondary importance, and you should really be focusing more on our overall frequency/betsize on various turns.
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12-15-2021 , 08:09 AM
#7
NVF
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anotherday
btn range:



bb range:


I know that's not a good bb range but people in micros have a range like this, even sometimes wider.]

Villain checks, Hero bets 1/3 and villain calls and we're on the turn.
Why would someone raise 43s but not raise 53s?
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12-15-2021 , 12:28 PM
#8
SuperSicko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NVF
Why would someone raise 43s but not raise 53s?
53s blocks the A5s 4 bet bluffs the BTN may choose to use.
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12-16-2021 , 04:19 AM
#9
Fast Fold Poker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSicko
53s blocks the A5s 4 bet bluffs the BTN may choose to use.
Not only that, but 43s is a connector and not a gapper and so overall is a better hand by that definition?

For example, isn't 76s > 86s?

Therefore 65s > 75s
and 54s > 64s
and 43s > 53s?

This wouldn't apply to KQs and AQs for example, as the higher card can make better top pairs and earn EV that way. Ditto with KJs > QJs. Perhaps QTs and JTs start getting almost equal and then T9s > J9s and that same pattern remains as you go down through all lower connectors vs gappers.
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12-16-2021 , 06:02 AM
#10
pjj
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adept
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Fold Poker
Not only that, but 43s is a connector and not a gapper and so overall is a better hand by that definition?

For example, isn't 76s > 86s?

Therefore 65s > 75s
and 54s > 64s
and 43s > 53s?

This wouldn't apply to KQs and AQs for example, as the higher card can make better top pairs and earn EV that way. Ditto with KJs > QJs. Perhaps QTs and JTs start getting almost equal and then T9s > J9s and that same pattern remains as you go down through all lower connectors vs gappers.
If 65s>75s, the main reason it can be other (other than card removal) is because it can make more straights. However, 43s can make the same amount of straights as 53s, but 53s makes better pairs, therefore 53s>43s.
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