Big drawing hand--take the free card, or build the pot? - Poker Theory

Two Plus Two Forums Poker Strategy Poker Theory & GTO

Big drawing hand--take the free card, or build the pot?

Post Reply Subscribe

...

11-21-2007 , 03:24 PM

Poker Clif

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 5,806

(Edited for spelling)

Everyone knows that you consider the pot odds, and usually wind up calling after flopping, say, flush draw with gutshot and overcard.

But if you're the favorite, then shouldn't you be building the pot as well? If so, at what point, and by what criterion: Pot equity? Pot odds? Implied odds? Some combination of those?

Quote

11-21-2007 , 03:35 PM

sh58

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 7,335

playing the hand agressively is best because you have good pot equity + fold equity, otherwise you can end up losing to a hand that wasn't that strong in the 1st place

Quote

11-21-2007 , 04:08 PM

RustyBrooks

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 24,647

This is true. Too many people assume that their outs to the straight or the flush are their only outs. Sometimes you're already ahead. If you're drawing to a high flush, you may have overcards to your opponent's pair. Your opponent may be drawing to a small flush or some other worse hand, etc.

Quote

11-25-2007 , 01:30 AM

4W Cowboy

newbie

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 30

A good feeler bet is about 25% of the pot. If you have a straight or a flush draw with over cards and your opponent has a pair I don't think you're the favorite..maybe the flush with overs, but the bet will let you know were you are in the hand and who knows you may be able to pick up the pot right there.

Quote

11-25-2007 , 02:39 AM

Jimbo

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 8,940

You indicated that you know you are the favorite. If this is the case all your money should get into the pot with as many callers as possible, as long as you remain the "favorite" to win.

Jimbo

Quote

11-25-2007 , 01:49 PM

Resistance

adept

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1,011

Quote:

This is a bad post.

You have a big draw, you're in the 35-55% equity area, you don't need to find out where you are.

I agree with above, pot equity + a small injection of fold equity = profit.

Quote

11-25-2007 , 03:03 PM

Fulzgold

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 3,213

Opponent dependent. Strong implied odds, play it slower. More fold equity, play it faster.

Quote

11-25-2007 , 07:41 PM

4W Cowboy

newbie

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 30

What ever you do don't listen to pros when they talk on TV. When they say betting out 25-35% to find out where you are is standard, why would you want to get heavily invested if somebody has 2 pr or trips...not me on a draw (just my playing style)... I'll put in my bet and if they call I'll see the next card... If they raise me I'll use the size of the raise as information. Thanks for you opinion tho.

Quote

11-26-2007 , 11:47 AM

Adrian20XX

grinder

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 613

Sklansky on the NL Holdem book has a good discussion on this. Basically it considers the EV of stacking him when you make the draw, against the EV of gettim him to fold (adjusted by the probability that you make your draw).
Then, it only comes to which play has most EV+.
Regards ...

Quote

11-26-2007 , 03:03 PM

#10

Poker Clif

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 5,806

Quote:

Thanks, I wasn't sure where, or if, this was discussed in the standard poker literature. Unfortunately, I'll going to have to wait to read that one. I'm getting both the Moshman SNG book (from my wife) and HOH Vol 2 (from my parents) as Christmas presents.

Quote

11-26-2007 , 09:43 PM

#11

JulioYalil

banned

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,209

Quote:

What ever you do don't listen to pros when they talk on TV.

lmfao bwaaahahahahahaaaa rofl

Quote

11-26-2007 , 09:51 PM

#12

futuredoc85

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 11,150

Quote:

that's because most of the TV pros are terrible and betting to find out where you're at is stupid 99% of the time. OP, i know this is a gay answer but it depends so much on position, opponent, stack sizes, action on previous streets, and board texture.

Quote

Post Reply Subscribe

...