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Mental Block? Mental Block?

01-26-2008 , 11:21 PM
Im sure im not alone in this, and im hoping someone can help me...

I am (imo) an above average player. I am regularly reading other peoples hands and knowing I am beat. Example:
Tourney NL
Blinds 200/400

Villian Raises to 800, I had 4400. I call, as do like 3 other players. I had A 10S Hearts, flop hit my 10, and guy raised 2k (flop was 7c 4c 10s) I had one move imo.. all in or fold. Every one else folded. I even said, pocket pair to person to right.. Even though I still thought he had high pockets, I push all in, obviously he called for 1700 more. He showed Queens and I didnt improve.

Thats the kind of thing I do, I know im beat and even say it to myself what the other person has.. and I still call and they show just what I thought.

Is this a mental block or what? What can I do to overcome it.. Other than "listen to your guy..."

Thanks guys
Mental Block? Quote
01-27-2008 , 06:45 AM
Easy call with only 10BB. You just got caught in a spot where he had the high part of his hand range. A conservative range here would be: two clubs, 7x, Tx, 88 - AA, 89s, AK.
Mental Block? Quote
01-27-2008 , 09:25 AM
Right, but the question really pertains to "i know what he has.." but i still call or push.
thanks legend, im glad i was right with what i did.. I've read a ton of books and I follow the push when i hit 10bb..
Mental Block? Quote
01-27-2008 , 09:52 AM
Yeh I understand the exact feeling you have about this hand. And sometimes I would say it's proper to fold, although the blinds would have to be 2x higher at least.

Just yesterday I was in a tourney and the blinds were only 30/60 I think, 3000 stacks. UTG+1 minraised to 120, folded to me and I 3bet it to 450 with TT. It folded back around to him and he minraised again to 900.

I've seen that (stupid imo) move enough to know there is a good chance he has a high pocket pair, so I just folded. In the past I would have felt weak doing it but I just couldn't see him doing that move with anything less than a premium hand (he wouldn't expect me to fold to the min4bet).

I'm mainly a cash player though and I think you'd get some good responses in the MTT or SNG forums. Also check out the Independent Chip Model (ICM) system if you haven't already. It certainly made me feel a lot better about cold pushing T7o when the blinds are large.
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01-27-2008 , 10:42 PM
There might be a high pair out there. There are individual high cards or straight possibilities. If you just call for fear of a high pair, you're likely to lose to one of those other hands. Only five cards improve your hand, any J or Q has to make someone's hand better than yours, and there may be other cards that win for someone. If your hand does improve, you're not sucking anyone in you can beat, who you can't suck in now.

Even against a high pair, you're not drawing dead. And someone might fold a high pair against a push with an Ace on the board. So push and forget about it when you lose.

I'd say your mental block comes afterwards. You decide you knew something you couldn't have known, so you can blame yourself for your loss, instead of the luck of the cards. If you enjoy blaming yourself, feel guilty for global warming and poverty so it doesn't mess up your poker.
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01-29-2008 , 06:42 PM
This was a good push. If you really had some damn good read that he had overpair, ok, you can excersize in discipline. But I cannot imagine what kind of read would that be (ok, I'm only bellow the average player, hence i need my bots to play for me).

He min rasied preflop which might indicate very big hand, but I wouldn't conclude it if I never played against this guy before. If it was only your gut feeling, forget it IMO.
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01-29-2008 , 07:18 PM
well.. the night before i called 5 hands on other people.. i gotta the discipline down if i want to play to my max potential.. The read tbh, was a gut feeling... His min raise, his huge push (which i knew he would do after i checked to him on the flop).. something just told me overpair.. i was just to dumb to listen to it..
Mental Block? Quote
01-30-2008 , 03:06 AM
if your gut is consistantly right u might be able to rely on your gut for decisions. till u are sure your gut is good more often than not id stick with a more logical than intuitive approach. give a good range if your gut is telling u something add a higher potential to that possibility but don't discount the fact that some times your gut will be wrong.

as for the hand if you read him for high pockets i don't like the cold call with a/10s, but given that like 3 others came along with the raiser your stack isn't deep enough to fold.

your stack was low in relation to the blinds i would have pushed or folded preflop especially with a table that didn't seem to respect villains raises
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01-30-2008 , 09:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by joey3002
Im sure im not alone in this, and im hoping someone can help me...

I am (imo) an above average player. I am regularly reading other peoples hands and knowing I am beat. Example:
Tourney NL
Blinds 200/400

Villian Raises to 800, I had 4400. I call, as do like 3 other players. I had A 10S Hearts, flop hit my 10, and guy raised 2k (flop was 7c 4c 10s) I had one move imo.. all in or fold. Every one else folded. I even said, pocket pair to person to right.. Even though I still thought he had high pockets, I push all in, obviously he called for 1700 more. He showed Queens and I didnt improve.

Thats the kind of thing I do, I know im beat and even say it to myself what the other person has.. and I still call and they show just what I thought.

Is this a mental block or what? What can I do to overcome it.. Other than "listen to your guy..."

Thanks guys
I use to think the way you think and I explain to you how I changed my thought process. Take your example for instance. If someone raises and I have 10x BB and I know I'm in a shove/fold situation I think to myself.

i) If I hit my 10 am I shoving the rest of my stack in?
ii) If I miss the flop am I shoving to take away the pot?
iii) Shall I shove pre-flop?
iv) Does the villian have 10s beat? e.g. Do I think the villian has JJ+ pre-flop. You have to start visualising this before the flop rather than on the flop. Try plan your actions before they happen.

Also if you look at things from a flop perspective, yes the worse scenario is the villian has a set/overpair however even with the overpairs you have 5 outs if its not AA. Alot of the time the villian can show up in this situation with draws, AK,AQ which makes you the favourite. I think situational based play like these ones after you been in the situation multiple times and you get a feel multiple times of what opponents can show up with your gut instinct with develop and change.

When I was doing some method acting courses they explained that the gut instinct reaction is a trigger when you associate a past scene or memory with a particular feeling. Hence you most likely been in the situation before and you are just doing sensory recall. The trick is to disassociate the feeling and sensory recall and try evaluate the current situation according to the current settings.
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01-31-2008 , 03:46 PM
Ur decision preflop was actually a move all in or fold decision. You should have folded to the raise preflop if weren't going all in.
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