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💵💵💵 Your approach: 💵💵💵 Your approach:

08-16-2022 , 07:40 PM
It seems quite difficult to apply GTO theory immediately, so I want to know how you apply it. Naturally you’re not considering the extensive depth that theory incurs, you have a bullet pointed approach, so please describe that approach in the below examples:

1:
SB VS BB
Hero (SB): 8h Jc
Flop: 5d Jh 4d
Facing RFI of 30% pot on the flop.

2: HJ VS CO
Hero (HJ): Ad Ts
Flop: 2h 3h Ts
Facing RFI of 25% pot on the flop.
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08-17-2022 , 02:17 PM
RFI only refers to preflop opens, and you didn't include the preflop action, let alone the size of the pot on the flop...

Not to mention that this is such an incredibly vague and general question lol

I've mentioned it before, but I really think you're jumping the gun on trying to understand poker man. As far as I can tell you still don't fully understand what equity is. You don't understand basic terminology, or apparently even how to post a hand for analysis. Which is totally fine, we were all beginners once, but you can't really force it

You seem very eager to learn, which is awesome, but if you don't know what you're doing then you're not going to be able to advance at the pace that you want. I would honestly consider hiring a coach of you want to learn and truly understand the most in the smallest amount of time

Last edited by whitemares; 08-17-2022 at 02:23 PM.
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08-17-2022 , 05:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitemares
RFI only refers to preflop opens, and you didn't include the preflop action, let alone the size of the pot on the flop...

Not to mention that this is such an incredibly vague and general question lol

I've mentioned it before, but I really think you're jumping the gun on trying to understand poker man. As far as I can tell you still don't fully understand what equity is. You don't understand basic terminology, or apparently even how to post a hand for analysis. Which is totally fine, we were all beginners once, but you can't really force it

You seem very eager to learn, which is awesome, but if you don't know what you're doing then you're not going to be able to advance at the pace that you want. I would honestly consider hiring a coach of you want to learn and truly understand the most in the smallest amount of time
I see. I didn’t know that RFI only refers to preflop opens, I assumed it meant any street that hadn’t yet been opened (hence it’s name, ‘raised first in’), so thanks for the clarification. Saying that I’m jumping the gun isn’t constructive, however. I’m trying to identify what to be applying in any one hand; clearly I don’t understand how to apply GTO yet. I wouldn’t consider identifying what to look for ‘jumping the gun’, I need to at LEAST know what I’m trying to apply? I understand basic terminology for the most part, just not where/when they apply hence the thread.

You’re probably right that I don’t know how to post a hand for analysis, this was the first time I had done it.
I assumed that if I hadn’t specified there was any action preflop, it was just a check… so specifying the size of the pot wouldn’t make sense, because it’s obviously just the blinds. But I can see how using ‘RFI’ alludes to an unspecified preflop action, as the first person to raise postflop isn’t considered RFI. So I’ll be sure to outline all action when I post a hand.

Would you like to take a shot at answering the question?
Describe your bullet-pointed approach for this hand:

SB calls to 1 BB
BB checks 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2 BB)
Hero (SB) has 8h Jc

Flop: 5d Jh 4d

SB checks.
BB raises 30% of the pot (0.6BB)
(I won’t be specifying stack depth here because I don’t want to consider that just yet)

What do you choose to do as SB?
What factors are you considering?
Identify what you’re looking at, and therefore what I should learn.
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08-17-2022 , 06:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by insideout1
You’re probably right that I don’t know how to post a hand for analysis, this was the first time I had done it.
I assumed that if I hadn’t specified there was any action preflop, it was just a check… so specifying the size of the pot wouldn’t make sense, because it’s obviously just the blinds.

Would you like to take a shot at answering the question?
Describe your bullet-pointed approach for this hand:

SB calls to 1 BB
BB checks 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2 BB)
Hero (SB) has 8h Jc

Flop: 5d Jh 4d

SB checks.
BB raises 30% of the pot (0.6BB)
(I won’t be specifying stack depth here because I don’t want to consider that just yet)

What do you choose to do as SB?
What factors are you considering?
Identify what you’re looking at, and therefore what I should learn.
Dude I don't even know where to start here. The forced bets at the start of the hand are a big blind and a small blind, and a small blind is equal to one half of the big blind, therefore the starting pot is always 1.5bb. And you don't even understand that when a player enters the pot preflop, they have to contribute an amount that's equal to or greater than the big blind. Have you ever played a hand of poker before in your life?

I honestly feel like there's a nonzero chance you're just trolling here
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08-17-2022 , 07:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitemares
Dude I don't even know where to start here. The forced bets at the start of the hand are a big blind and a small blind, and a small blind is equal to one half of the big blind, therefore the starting pot is always 1.5bb. And you don't even understand that when a player enters the pot preflop, they have to contribute an amount that's equal to or greater than the big blind. Have you ever played a hand of poker before in your life?

I honestly feel like there's a nonzero chance you're just trolling here
The SB puts in half a big blind automatically, and puts in the remaining half in order to continue the hand. So if the BB puts in a full BB, and the SB continues with a full big blind (half automatically, and calls the remaining half), that makes two BB.

If the pot was only 1.5BB postflop, the SB wouldn’t of called the remaining 0.5BB?
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08-17-2022 , 07:44 PM
Ok that one was my own fault lol, I misread the positions

Think most of what I said still stands though
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08-17-2022 , 08:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitemares
Ok that one was my own fault lol, I misread the positions

Think most of what I said still stands though
It doesn’t. I’m asking a very simple question man. I’m asking specifically to outline your approach as you’d think it in the moment. I was expecting a very narrow bullet pointed approach, not particularly theory heavy, just exactly how you would approach it. Then I was going to figure out the theory with each bullet point. I just want to streamline what I'm looking for.

E.G. figure out pot odds.
Check if VPIP/PFR was within this range, call/bet if it is within this range []
Figure out MDF/Alpha where applicable.

I literally DO NOT know what people are thinking in each hand, I just know it’s very simple and quick.
The advice to simply ‘learn more’ is exactly what I’m trying to achieve here, and it’s so blatantly not constructive to suggest I do that. So do you know how to answer my question or not? It’s surely not so complex that I’m “jumping the gun”, I’m only asking what factors you consider in each hand. Please refer to the above hands if you’re ABLE to answer it.
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08-17-2022 , 09:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitemares
Ok that one was my own fault lol, I misread the positions

Think most of what I said still stands though
Is your approach particularly streamlined or are you struggling to answer the question?
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08-18-2022 , 08:10 AM
You're basically asking "how do i play poker". It couldn't be properly synthesized in one post. You should try questions with a smaller scope
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08-18-2022 , 09:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by insideout1
Is your approach particularly streamlined or are you struggling to answer the question?
I'm struggling to answer the question because it's so ridiculously general lol. Like aner0 said you're basically just asking how to play poker
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08-18-2022 , 09:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aner0
You're basically asking "how do i play poker". It couldn't be properly synthesized in one post. You should try questions with a smaller scope
Not at all, I wasn’t asking for the underlying theory - I just wanted to identify the most essential baseline strategy / metrics in order to scope down into more specific questions. How can it be that everyone makes a decision in mere seconds, using EXACT baseline strategy / metrics, and yet even without the underlying theory it’s difficult to answer? I was really hoping for like 3/4 bullet points (because that’s all people are considering, right?) How am I supposed to reduce my questions to a smaller scope if I don’t even know what factors people are considering in the provided hands.

General theory doesn’t tend to be specific enough on board textures/position, so people often have a problem applying what they’ve learnt. Therefore, asking questions to figure out WHERE what you’ve learnt applies can come across as vague, so I apologise for that. Perhaps it would help if you could identify some good questions to ask.
Thanks @aner0, always appreciate your response.
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08-18-2022 , 09:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitemares
I'm struggling to answer the question because it's so ridiculously general lol. Like aner0 said you're basically just asking how to play poker
I’ll copy and paste my response to aner0 for you.

“Not at all, I wasn’t asking for the underlying theory - I just wanted to identify the most essential baseline strategy / metrics in order to scope down into more specific questions. How can it be that everyone makes a decision in mere seconds, using EXACT baseline strategy / metrics, and yet even without the underlying theory it’s difficult to answer? I was really hoping for like 3/4 bullet points (because that’s all people are considering, right?) How am I supposed to reduce my questions to a smaller scope if I don’t even know what factors people are considering in the provided hands.

General theory doesn’t tend to be specific enough on board textures/position, so people often have a problem applying what they’ve learnt. Therefore, asking questions to figure out WHERE what you’ve learnt applies can come across as vague, so I apologise for that. Perhaps it would help if you could identify some good questions to ask. “
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08-18-2022 , 09:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitemares
I'm struggling to answer the question because it's so ridiculously general lol. Like aner0 said you're basically just asking how to play poker
Is there not 3/4 factors you’re considering to make your decision, why is it so hard to identify them? Again, not asking for the theory here.
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08-18-2022 , 09:30 AM
People with experience don't think in terms of explicit bullet points, and when they do, a lot of the time they couldn't explain it to you because it's instinctual and automatic.

You have to learn the theory and then put It into practice so your brain develops those connections, you can't download that process from someone elses brain.

Things you need to think about when playing a flop Will have to do with
Texture: range advantages, range distributions, equity denial, equity switches...
Reads: HUD stats, MDA, notes, intuition

AKA how to play poker
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08-18-2022 , 10:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aner0
People with experience don't think in terms of explicit bullet points, and when they do, a lot of the time they couldn't explain it to you because it's instinctual and automatic.

You have to learn the theory and then put It into practice so your brain develops those connections, you can't download that process from someone elses brain.

Things you need to think about when playing a flop Will have to do with
Texture: range advantages, range distributions, equity denial, equity switches...
Reads: HUD stats, MDA, notes, intuition

AKA how to play poker
That was exactly the response I was looking for, thank you. I was more asking what to play poker WITH than just HOW to play it, but I agree I was vague.

-range advantages
-range distributions
-equity denial
-equity switches

-HUD stats
-MDA
-Notes
-Intuition

So in other words:
- Who has the range advantage and how the range is distributed between linear, polarised, merged, condensed or un-condensed.
- Knowing where to bet to deny your opponent their hand (by virtue of your opponent’s range distributions, and therefore who’s more likely to have higher equity). And the latter to that being the texture favouring your opponent’s range distribution (equity advantage), ‘switching’ the equity favourite, or vice versa.

- HUD stats that indicate the type of player and therefore his tendencies, and knowing where these tendencies favour your equity, or even ‘switch’ the equity favourite onto you.

Am I correct? I should make a separate thread to see where each of these factors apply and change by position and board texture. Are there any sub-categories of each I should know?

Last edited by insideout1; 08-18-2022 at 10:43 AM.
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08-18-2022 , 07:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aner0
People with experience don't think in terms of explicit bullet points, and when they do, a lot of the time they couldn't explain it to you because it's instinctual and automatic.

You have to learn the theory and then put It into practice so your brain develops those connections, you can't download that process from someone elses brain.

Things you need to think about when playing a flop Will have to do with
Texture: range advantages, range distributions, equity denial, equity switches...
Reads: HUD stats, MDA, notes, intuition

AKA how to play poker
Are there any sub-categories I should know of each?
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08-18-2022 , 11:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitemares
I'm struggling to answer the question because it's so ridiculously general lol. Like aner0 said you're basically just asking how to play poker
Nothing? Great.
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