Perhaps you should file a complaint with 2+2 and also with Merge about my conduct.

Just to be clear: I don't think that and I assume most who disagree with your position don't care that much about it either. Nobody is afraid that RPM would nix the promo out of one zealot's overconcern for privacy. Many people who disagree with you aren't even interested in taking part in the promo in the first place. They just think your stance on this is really weird.

Well, maybe not this kind of promotion in a "Hall of Fame" kind of thing like RPM is creatively doing. But they post pics of their players (not just their own pros) really frequently.

Do we need to get in touch with Stars to alert them of the dangers they are causing these misguided saps who just don't understand their risks?



OMG!!!

http://www.pokerstarsblog.com/wsop/2...2070.html#more

OMG X 2!!!!

http://www.pokerstarsblog.com/team_p...1486.html#more

OHNOEZZZZ!!!

http://www.pokerstarsblog.com/wcoop/...3658.html#more

http://www.pokerstarsblog.com/wcoop/...3242.html#more

http://www.pokerstarsblog.com/wcoop/...9486.html#more



I can't believe Stars printed that quote WITH his pic when one considers all the evil criminal-type people in the world!

It's also probably worth noting that Stars is pretty freaking big. I'm sure more people see that blog than see the pics of the mostly "regular joes" on the RPM site which is obviously smaller than Stars. It actually takes a fairly non-baller type of dude like me to have an interest in the KOTR promotion. Some of the guys Stars is promoting are already fairly loaded (or give that impression)....not a, "well...what if he happens to win a big tournament in the future" kind of way as seemed to be part of your concern with the RPM thing.

Anyway, as I said before, I think the promo is creative and fun. The whole bit about writing a poem for anyone who succeeds or fails at it and the other punishments for those who commit but don't make it really cracked me up (photoshop with a mustache, never-ending bonus to drive you insane, etc). I think it's this type of fresh and clever promoting that actually makes people laugh that we could use more of in the poker world.

I think we need to accept that the rules of the King of the Road involves sending in a picture. If you don't like it then you don't have to do it. I realize that value is there and some are reluctant because you have to send a picture in. I know that many times sites do have pictures of people that win tourneys. Stars has the Tournament Leader board person have them send a picture if they want I believe. UB used to have people send in a picture if they won fairly big tourneys on their site. I have been to AC numerous times (Too many times to count) and have had friends robbed on several occasions. I seem to dodge that bullet.

It is a neat promotion and its not the end of the world having a picture up. I have had my picture on UB before and it wasn't a big deal. I am going to guess that if you don't want your picture posted anywhere that you do not play any big tourneys that are televised.

Santa's concern reminds me of a story about my Great-Grandfather whom I was named after (he passed away before I was born).

Evidently he was playing poker at someplace psuedo-underground room in Ohio (technically not legal but advertised on the front of their building...pretty common back then). He came back to the hotel room with a lot of cash and told my Great-Grandmother to pack her stuff...they were getting the heck out of there and leaving town since the entire poker-room knew he was the big winner that night and I guess he didn't want to be robbed in his room.

I guess that's kind of how things were back then. This would have been in the 1940's or 50's or so.

Yeah, I can't imagine that having your pic posted on the internet that you won a few hundred in value from RPM (and MIGHT actually score a tournament at some point in the future) is somehow more dangerous than consistently playing live and perhaps walking back to your car late at night in a place like AC.

MicroBob, Other than saying that I'm a longtime pokerplayer who lives in a community with a lot of other poker players, that I am a moderator in another poker forum and that I personally know poker players who have been robbed, I didn't include any other personal information in my pm. It's because of my own experiences that I mentioned the security risks in my original post to begin with. So I don't know how you think my pm is swamped with personal info or that personal info is irrelevant.

I don't know why you think posts #91 and #88 somehow ended the debate. You called me wacky in post #88. That's a way of dropping the topic? You're kidding right?

You keep misrepresenting what I've said. I've made it clear that the only problem that I have is that these photos are not voluntary as you claim, which gets in the way of people making a level headed choice as to whether they should post their image. Those photos that you posted along with your childish sarcasm have nothing to do with what I've been talking about (of course if you had read my pm you would have known that). PokerStars isn't about to force somebody to post their picture in order to receive online winnings as the RPM promotion is doing. I've never heard of a promotion that requires people to publish their picture in order to cash in.

I've never said that it wasn't a fun promotion (as a matter of fact I specifically said that it was a fun promotion) or that people shouldn't send in their pictures, only that people need to make an informed decision if they decide to do so. You keep making silly arguments for things that I have never said or implied.

And I got through all 697 words of your latest posts with no trouble at all.

jmurjeff, first of all my posts have only said that people need to think before giving up the anonymity of the web. And when push comes to shove, online sites don't actually make you submit a picture to collect online winnings. By the way jmurjeff, I do appreciate that yours is the first reasonable and well written post that I've seen responding to this topic.

Don't feel like responding to all your points right now but one sticks out that I believe is incorrect:



Sorry, but this is just wrong.



This is in the Stars T&C for any player participating in the "PokerStars Passport" promotion. And similar (or identical) language is used for WSOP or EPT satellite winners and other things.

In other words, if you want to "participate in the promotion" you are granting them the use of your pic however they please.

My posts were way more relevant (and interesting) than your PM.

As I said, I read most of it. Would you still like me to read all of it? Would you like me to respond to it in this thread?

I'm not positive but I'm pretty sure a lot of lotteries and slot machine terms and conditions involve language that winners "volunteer" their name and likeness for promotional purposes (so that the company can show everyday regular folks who have won).

In other words, this whole concept you seem to be so concerned about is not an uncommon thing at all.


http://southerngaming.com/?p=708

True they volunteer but you can be anonymous I believe when you when the lottery. Unless they have that in the terms before you participate.

jmur - I'm really not in the mood to search through a bunch of different T&C's of different lotteries and slot stuff to find out for sure so I really don't know (nor care).

But by "volunteer" I was kind of saying that tongue-in-cheek. I do suspect that some of this photo stuff at casinos is a mandatory thing for winners and that participating by playing whatever machine obligates one to have their pic taken if they win a zillion dollars. I'm not positive on that though.

Another example would be the WSOP which is taking place right now. You are not allowed to participate without volunteering your name and likeness. If you make it to the final table then people are going to know what you look like. To me, this is just as "mandatory" for participation in the WSOP as RPM's bit of wanting to use someone's photo for their little Wall of Fame thing for their KOTR promo.

As I said in my post, when push comes to shove players don't in fact have to submit a photo to collect their winnings. Sometimes you'll see pictures attached to those winning stories and sometimes you won't. Nobody in reality gets denied their winnings because they don't feel comfortable submitting their picture.

Yeah your posts are real interesting, as Clint Eastwood would say, "You're a legend in your own mind."

Mandatory pictures that has existed in some places for lottery players has been very very controversal since a number of lottery winners have been robbed. In some South American countries lottery winners wear masks when collecting their winnings. This is exactly what I mean, people need to think before jumping in front of a camera with a check for 12 million dollars even though it might feel good at the moment.

I'm only speaking about giving up the anonymity of online play nothing else. When a person plays in public he has given up that anonymity regardless of whether he submits a photo. One of the first things one learns in Journalism school is the distinction between public figures and private figures. It's a very real legal distiction. The general public doesn't realize how easy it is to give up some of their rights to privacy by simply jumping in front of a camera. When you are talking about live play you are talking about something much different than what I have brought up. You're comparing apples and oranges.

Your arguments are so weird and inconsistent they become difficult to address.

The danger involved in such a thing doesn't change whether it's a public venue and is more standard for photos to be taken or not. Therefore the point that I'm making does indeed have relevance.

If you are concerned about the potential dangers of those participating in this RPM photo thing then you should be way more concerned by all the people out there participating in the public stuff like the WSOP who similarly might not be making informed decisions of what can happen if they play in the event. You aren't the least bit concerned about those people it seems.
And it's clearly way more dangerous than the RPM thing because these are people who are having their photo taken with big "Won $625k!!!" type headlines on them.

And that brings us right back to where we were before. You are now saying you are concerned about the anonymity aspect that should be a right on the internet. And that brings me to my original point that you don't have to participate in the promotion if you don't want to. If you value your internet-poker anonymity that much then clearly you should skip the promotion. Just like anyone who values their internet-poker anonymity shouldn't bother applying to be a "Pokerstars Pro" because it involves your pic and real name being put out there publicly....or just like anyone who doesn't want their picture taken should not play at the WSOP.

lol wow you guys are still going at it?

I think its time to agree to disagree (or ban SantaCruz for trolling) and move on.

MicroBob, you keep bring up completely irrelevant things. The WSOP is a completely different topic and I haven't expressed any feelings about it one way or another. I'm trying to keep this to the point and you are bringing up these wild tangents.

Just ask your grandfather about how safe winning $625k is in a live tournament. Someone who has just publicly won a huge sum of money, whether it's in the lottery or the WSOP, obviously needs to be a little more careful than someone who hasn't. That's a no brainer. I'm not going to waste time arguing the obvious. Players on the web generally don't have to deal with those issues and it is only players on the web that I have addressed throughout my posts.

If people don't want to participate in the promotion they don't have to. But I'm sure some people do want to particpate but can't without giving up their identity. I'm just saying that people who do join the promotion need to stop and think and examine their own living situation before deciding; and that you saying that that is nonsense is doing the players a disservice. Do you really think Isildur1 needed to submit a picture of himself for winning tournaments before he made his identity public?

LOL.

^^^Just one more nonsensical post. I'll just add it to the list.

Yes, I thought your inherent contradiction in the above quote was extremely nonsensical.

I was responding directly to what you wrote in your post. Yes I have been trying to keep this to the point and yes I have addressed your tangental points. The inherent contradictions are in your own imagination.

edit: That's funny, I just noticed that you deleted your post and just left LOL. Talk about nonsense!

You have done a terrible job in both regards.

Is it possible you would be willing to change your mind on the whole PM thing? I would still like to post it here.

I notice that you never address what I actually write in a post. If you can't go off on a complete tangent, you literally have nothing to say. I've already answered your question about my pm. There is nothing in my pm that I haven't already written in these posts. I'm not about to start from square one on this topic and reargue everything that has already been said.

Yes there is. Otherwise I wouldn't be interested in posting it.

Send me a pm and tell me exactly what it is in my pm that you are so dying to reprint because I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.