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Is this a winning position for white, or only draw? Is this a winning position for white, or only draw?

11-17-2009 , 06:28 AM


Its white's move.

Plan of action? I have not yet been able to win from this position, only draw.

http://picve.com/viewer.php?file=nju...2jh28flfxs.jpg = for larger photo.
Is this a winning position for white, or only draw? Quote
11-17-2009 , 06:45 AM
Haven't analysed the position in detail, but it looks like white is winning to me. Black is down an exchange with no real play and passive bishops. I would start with 1. Nf3 to defend against Nxf5 and exchange or chase away the Nd4. Then slowly bringing the Rooks and Queen to the kingside and moving the g- and h-pawns up there to open lines looks like the right plan to me.
Is this a winning position for white, or only draw? Quote
11-17-2009 , 02:06 PM
ok, have been winning now.

Last edited by ProfessorPain; 11-17-2009 at 02:33 PM.
Is this a winning position for white, or only draw? Quote
11-18-2009 , 06:44 AM
The position is far from easy. White is up an exchange, but I don't like the bishop f1 biting on the own pawns. Black should play on the dark squares, say 1.Nf3 Qh6 with ideas like Qe3+ and Bf8-h6. Therefore I would like to start with Qd2 to take away the h6 square and if Nxf5 then Bh3 picking up the pawn on d7 in return and activating the bishop after all. After Qd2 white is certainly better, but it will be a long technical grind.

Last edited by Shandrax; 11-18-2009 at 06:53 AM.
Is this a winning position for white, or only draw? Quote
11-18-2009 , 07:31 AM
Not to pick on you or anything, but the question you made is wrong in general - this position has so much play that you can't ask if white is winning or it's only a draw. The question should be whether white is better, or worse, or is the position around equal.

White is obviously better, but it has to be careful, for example after Qd2 as Shandrax offered, 1.. Nxf5 2. Bh3 Nd4 3. Bxd7 f5 it suddenly might be white that is playing for a draw.

1. Nf3 looks like a best try for white, but to be honest it will be very hard for an inexperienced player to win resulting positions. Black is just so strong on dark squares and can pretty much build a fortress, I don't really see a way for white to improve?

For example 1. Nf3, black plays almost any move, let's say 1.. a5, 2. Nxd4 cxd4 3. a3 Bc5 and now what? black will always have Bc6 followed by b5 and creating a weakness on d3 after an exchange. Bishop on c5 will be supported by d6 so c line will not be won by white. King side pawn storm is not scary at all because white's own king is weak enough and as long as black gets b5 white will be pinned to defending against threats in queenside. Also even if white manages to get something going on king side black will always have an escape route for the king to safer place, like e7.

In other words, black should be able to create (or threaten to create) enough play on the queenside to not allow white to commit too much to the king side attack. And White will not be able to breakthrough in the queenside because all the lines are closed.

I honestly don't see a way for white to improve against a good play by black, feel free to show me
Is this a winning position for white, or only draw? Quote
11-18-2009 , 09:18 AM
Maybe we should try playing around the d4-Knight. For example, after 1.Nf3 a5? just 2. a4 looks very good to me (edit: unless black can build some kind of fortress on the K-side black squares but an exchange up and with white being the only side who has a pawn break it looks kinda unlikely to me). After 1. Nf3 Qh6 ala shandrax we should play Nxd4 exd4 3. Qd2 and it looks that white can unravel.
Is this a winning position for white, or only draw? Quote
11-18-2009 , 10:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by YouKnowWho
White is obviously better, but it has to be careful, for example after Qd2 as Shandrax offered, 1.. Nxf5 2. Bh3 Nd4 3. Bxd7 f5 it suddenly might be white that is playing for a draw.
3.Bxd7 is bad. No need to recover the pawn at all. Tempting black to take on f5 was very nice for us. In fact, why even bother with Bh3?

1.Qd2 Nxf5 2.O-O-O Nd4 3.Bg2 with Rf1-f2, Ne2, and Rhf1 ideas.
Is this a winning position for white, or only draw? Quote
11-18-2009 , 11:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noir_Desir
Maybe we should try playing around the d4-Knight. For example, after 1.Nf3 a5? just 2. a4 looks very good to me (edit: unless black can build some kind of fortress on the K-side black squares but an exchange up and with white being the only side who has a pawn break it looks kinda unlikely to me). After 1. Nf3 Qh6 ala shandrax we should play Nxd4 exd4 3. Qd2 and it looks that white can unravel.
After 1.Nf3 a5?! 2.a4? Nxf3+ 3.Qxf3 Black can play Qg7, h6, Be7 and then go to c7 with his king.

After 1.Nf3 Qh6!? 2.Nxd4 exd4 we probably should heed the threat 3...Bxg3+. Black's position is hard to crack.

As Black I would play 1.Nf3 Nxf3 and try to hold the fortress. The material advantage of white is a little deceiving because he'll have to sacrifice at least a pawn to open up a file.
Is this a winning position for white, or only draw? Quote
11-18-2009 , 11:15 AM
i should really pay more attention to immediate tactics before posting...
Is this a winning position for white, or only draw? Quote
11-20-2009 , 11:59 PM
White wins. It takes a long time to do it. Got caught up in this for some reason. Got help from software.

[FEN "r4q1k/pb1p1p1p/1p1b1p2/2p1pP2/2PnP3/3P2P1/PP5P/R2QKBNR w KQ - 0 1"]
1. Nf3 Qh6 2. Kf2 Rc8 3. Bg2 a6 4. Re1 Rg8 5. a3 Nc6 6. Qd2 Qh5 7. h3 Nd4
8. g4 Nxf3 9. Kxf3 Qg5 10. Ke2 Qh4 11. Qe3 Bc6 12. Qf2 Qg5 13. Bf3 b5 14.
Rab1 Rb8 15. b3 Bc7 16. Rg1 bxc4 17. bxc4 Rxb1 18. Rxb1 Ba5 19. Kf1 d6 20.
Rb8+ Kg7 21. Kg2 Qc1 22. Be2 h6 23. Qf3 Qg5 24. Kh2 Qd2 25. h4 Qc1 26. g5
hxg5 27. hxg5 Qf4+ 28. Qxf4 exf4 29. gxf6+ Kxf6 30. Kg2 Ke7 31. Bh5 f6 32.
Kf3 Ba4 33. Kxf4 Bd2+ 34. Kg3 Bc2 35. Be2 Bc3 36. Rb7+ Kd8 37. Kf3 a5 38.
Ke3 a4 39. Bf3 Kc8 40. Rf7 Bb3 41. Bh5 Kd8 42. Ke2 Kc8 43. Ra7 Kb8 44. Rd7
Be5 45. Bf7 Kc8 46. Be6 Kb8 47. Bd5 Bc2 48. Bc6 Bb3 49. Rb7+ Kc8 50. Ra7
Bc3 51. Bxa4 Kb8 52. Ra6 Bxa4 53. Rxa4 Kb7 54. Kd1 Kb6 55. Ra8 Kb7 56. Re8
Be5 57. Rxe5 dxe5 +/-
Is this a winning position for white, or only draw? Quote

      
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